Snake bites

Re: Snake bites

Tim Cheyne — Thu, 09 Aug 2012 13:25:26 GMT

Thanks, Alex.

I shall pass on whatever opinions you are able to obtain. This chap is devoted to his dogs and I would not like him to think that they are now protected when they are not. 'Laissez faire' is not a good thing when snakes are around.

Tim.

Re: Snake bites

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 09 Aug 2012 13:07:24 GMT

When I saw the thread resurrected I thought it was Tim reporting back the dog had been bitten again and was now dead............

Re: Snake bites

Alexander Campbell — Thu, 09 Aug 2012 12:20:36 GMT

Hi Tim

I just noticed this mail. At VPIS we have many case enquiries each year involving Vipera berus bites. We have had instances of dogs being bitten for a second time after a significant interval and they had exactly the same reactions on both occasions.

I will ask a few toxinologists I know - particularly my colleague Dr de Haro in Marseille who specialises in human envenomations to see if he can shed light on this. I will report back to the forum.

Cheers

Alex

Re: Snake bites

Tim Cheyne — Mon, 21 May 2012 05:15:37 GMT

Thanks for all the contributions. I hear that both dogs are now home, sleepy and rather weak, with necrotic lesions in and around the mouth, but eating soft food and quite cheerful.

Tim.

Re: Snake bites

Tim Cheyne — Sun, 20 May 2012 14:17:22 GMT

[quote user="Lorna McHardy"]Oh, look, it's red star person again!![/quote]

Digressing (Sorry!) but this is the second time recently that a poster has mentioned a red star but when I referred to their post I could not see the star.. Perhaps it is because I neither use nor heed the star system.

Anyway, Lorna, I thought your post very helpful, thanks.

Tim.

Edited for a typo,

Re: Snake bites

Mark Rowland — Sun, 20 May 2012 13:46:33 GMT

[quote user="Lorna McHardy"]

Oh, look, it's red star person again!! Do tell me what was that badly wrong with the post. On second thoughts, don't bother

[/quote] Agreed, a great post. I don't mind seeing red if someone is man ( or woman ) enough to explain why they thought it deserved it. Seems there are some real saddos about. ;-)

Re: Snake bites

Lorna McHardy — Sun, 20 May 2012 12:22:27 GMT

Oh, look, it's red star person again!! Do tell me what was that badly wrong with the post. On second thoughts, don't bother

Re: Snake bites

plantagenet — Sun, 20 May 2012 11:46:34 GMT

A quick look at VIN seems to indicate that immunity - either vaccine or natural - to snake bites does not seem to be reliable. Different snakes, admittedly.

Re: Snake bites

Lorna McHardy — Sun, 20 May 2012 09:38:23 GMT

A quick Google reveals that if it was in France, it's most likely to have been an asp viper (Vipera aspis); but could also have been the common adder (Vipera berus) or Ursini's viper (Vipera Ursinii). There's another one as well but it's described as close to extinction, so probably not.

If it was a common adder, they're more likely to have survived anyway; either of the other two and they were probably lucky. As far as I remember, all three produce haemotoxins with both coagulant and anticoagulant effects. Not sure how you could become immune to that... sounds like nonsense, but I'm happy to be informed otherwise once an expert appears :0)

Re: Snake bites

Tim Cheyne — Sun, 20 May 2012 09:05:16 GMT

Thanks, Mark, that was how I felt too. I knew of some 'snake men' in Bangladesh who died from snake bites and they had been handling snakes since they were kids.

Tim.

Re: Snake bites

Mark Hedberg — Sun, 20 May 2012 06:36:21 GMT

Not an expert, but this is absolutely wrong for the reasons you state. Species of snake, type of poison, amount of poison, and frequency of exposure are all issues. Why would snake handlers (at least, the organized ones) bother having emergency numbers of hospitals with antivenin? Many of them have been bitten multiple times.