Goat PTS

Re: Goat PTS

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 21 May 2012 16:34:58 GMT

[quote user="plantagenet"]5 years ago[/quote]

Interesting. What police force do you fall under.

This is the one I have, they make a special not that no FAC needed.

Re: Goat PTS

plantagenet — Mon, 21 May 2012 15:22:47 GMT

[quote user="Alan Tevendale"]Was that before or after 1998 that it was added?[/quote]

5 years ago

Re: Goat PTS

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 21 May 2012 08:44:44 GMT

I'm out of date I definitely needed a firearms cert for a captive bolt in the 80s

Wynne

Re: Goat PTS

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sun, 20 May 2012 20:34:44 GMT

If you keep it on the list at each renewal, the policeman will naturally just copy it to the new cert.

Probably not worth the hassle of taking it off?

Re: Goat PTS

Michael Woodhouse — Sun, 20 May 2012 17:51:30 GMT

[quote user="Alan Tevendale"]We have lots of hassle with regards to dart guns and what the requirements are with the appropriate wording on the firearms certificate.[/quote]

I am technically breaking a condition on my firearms certificate if I dart an animal and it lives!

Re: Goat PTS

Alan Tevendale — Sun, 20 May 2012 14:42:52 GMT

Was that before or after 1998 that it was added? I know local firmarms officers often lack the appropriate knowledge when it comes to the more specialist fields. I wouldn't be surprised that they just left your humane killer on just to be safe.

We have lots of hassle with regards to dart guns and what the requirements are with the appropriate wording on the firearms certificate.

Re: Goat PTS

plantagenet — Sun, 20 May 2012 11:39:43 GMT

My humane killer was certainly added to my existing firearms license, ammunition to be kept in separate gun cabinet. I have left it on there each renewal.

Re: Goat PTS

Alan Tevendale — Sat, 19 May 2012 21:15:22 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="Alan Tevendale"]Presuming the HSA are up to date with the legislation then this would seem to state that a frrearms licence is no longer required.[/quote]

Alan - only spotted your reply after responding!

(I am fairly sure that veterinary surgeons are exempt from a slaughtermans licence too, one of those things like we can shoe horses should we wish)

[/quote]

You would hope that a vet would have the appropriate knowledge to slaughter a animal humanely. Or at least if they didn't would have know their limitations so that their actions remained professional.

Re: Goat PTS

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 19 May 2012 17:57:43 GMT

[quote user="Alan Tevendale"]Presuming the HSA are up to date with the legislation then this would seem to state that a frrearms licence is no longer required.[/quote]

Alan - only spotted your reply after responding!

(I am fairly sure that veterinary surgeons are exempt from a slaughtermans licence too, one of those things like we can shoe horses should we wish)

Re: Goat PTS

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 19 May 2012 17:54:37 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Sorry Micheal You do need a firearms certificate and it must (+ ammo ) be kept in a secure place[/quote]

From the Police Firearm Guidance:

2.28 When considering whether a particular
weapon should be regarded as a firearm to
which section 1 of the 1968 Act applies or
which is covered by the 1982 Act, it is
important to remember that the purpose of
the legislation is to control the supply and
possession of all rifles, guns and pistols
which could be used for criminal or
subversive purposes while recognising that
individuals may own and use firearms and
other devices for legitimate purposes. In the
absence of a decision by a court, the
Secretary of State takes the view that the
following devices should not be regarded as
firearms within the definition of the Act:

DEFINITION AND CLASSIFICATION OF FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION
a) captive-bolt stunning devices (where the
bolt remains attached to the barrel) used in
the slaughter of animals, operated by blank
cartridges or pneumatically;

I do have a Firearms Certificate so it wouldn't be an issue if one was required, but the captive bolt 100% not legally a firearm.

Re: Goat PTS

Alan Tevendale — Sat, 19 May 2012 11:53:01 GMT

http://www.hsa.org.uk/Resources/Publications/Technical%20Notes/calves.pdf.

Presuming the HSA are up to date with the legislation then this would seem to state that a frrearms licence is no longer required.

Re: Goat PTS

Alan Tevendale — Sat, 19 May 2012 11:41:54 GMT

I was under the impression that they were removed from the requirements for a licence in the late 90s -i.e. section 1 firearms. You still need a slaughter mans licence to use for routine use but an exception is in place for the humane destruction of an animal in distress. Which would obviously cover what most vets are intending to use one for.

Re: Goat PTS

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 19 May 2012 09:39:38 GMT

Sorry Micheal You do need a firearms certificate and it must (+ ammo ) be kept in a secure place

Wynne

Re: Goat PTS

Tim Cheyne — Sat, 19 May 2012 05:15:07 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]This is where the captive bolt comes into its own. Can live in the car and no firearm security issues. Mine is under my seat.[/quote]

Things have obviously changed for the better then. Many years ago when I had one in UK I had to have a firearms licence and it (and even the charges) had to be 'securely contained'. Damned nuisance in an emergency.

Tim.

Re: Goat PTS

Lorna McHardy — Fri, 18 May 2012 22:36:40 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]

Isn't that one of life's little ironies - so much bone with so little to protect.

[/quote]

Precisely why they need all that bone... no other resources

Re: Goat PTS

Lorna McHardy — Fri, 18 May 2012 22:34:20 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

There is some recent legislation passed in Scotland making it a criminal offence to 'leave a poisoned carcase'.

[/quote]

Really... I didn't know that. When the police called me out to euthanase a deer only a few weeks ago, they told me to leave it there for the council to pick up the following day. I double-checked, because I didn't really like just leaving it there. What if somebody thought it might taste good??? No, they said, it's fine... we'll move it over there and put a few bags over it. Ok.....

Re: Goat PTS

Busybee — Fri, 18 May 2012 22:03:10 GMT

Well luckily I got a call just before I set off from the guy who reported it to me saying someone from the local wildlife rescue had just arrived (phoned by someone else) who was going to 'dispatch' it. so I didn't have to go in the end

Re: Goat PTS

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 18 May 2012 21:32:01 GMT

BB - glad it went ok for you!

[quote user="Busybee"] had a deer + pentobarb situation last night![/quote]

There is some recent legislation passed in Scotland making it a criminal offence to 'leave a poisoned carcase'. All I did when injecting deer was drag to side of road and inform local authority the next day.

This is where the captive bolt comes into its own. Can live in the car and no firearm security issues. Mine is under my seat.

Re: Goat PTS

Busybee — Fri, 18 May 2012 20:38:56 GMT

Thanks for all your advice on this one! Well, goat rallied for 24hrs but the time came this morning. Took pentobarb, somulose, xylazine and ketamine with me! All prepared! It was a pet goat but the owner was very sensible and realistic about what needed to be done. Goat was already down and quiet so just went straight for IV. Used 70ml pentobarb in the end and it drifted off nicely - could probably have used less but was paranoid it was gonna jump up again! Was pretty much out after 30ml.

There are 5 of us in the practice - 3 have a gun license, me not one of them! Did offer that option to the owner but they wanted injection. Should think about getting a gun license - had a deer + pentobarb situation last night!

Re: Goat PTS

Malcolm Ness — Thu, 17 May 2012 17:25:01 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"] much thinner skulls than sheep[/quote]

Isn't that one of life's little ironies - so much bone with so little to protect.

Re: Goat PTS

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 17 May 2012 15:32:42 GMT

[quote user="Tim Cheyne"]If it is a pet the owner might not be happy with shooting. In any case I have found that shooting a goat, or a horned sheep. is not as easy as shooting cattle or even horses.[/quote]

I give them the option but shooting remains my preferred method for cattle, sheep and horses. I will inject them if the owner wishes but it costs more, takes longer and can be more stressful for the owner. I have found in these cases the owner can be (understandably) pretty useless at holding the animal. My top tip if you want to shoot things is take 2 pairs of ear defenders.

Even horned goats have much thinner skulls than sheep. I usually shoot sheep in the same place as cattle and round here almost all have horns. I have never had a bullet deflect. I do have a captive bolt that I use when a bullet not safe, but I would reserve that for the farmer audience as you then need to pith or bleed and neither is pretty.

Re: Goat PTS

Virginia Campbell — Thu, 17 May 2012 13:58:08 GMT

Guess goat is maybe PTs'd by now but if you're still to do it, another vote here for good presedation. I know xylazine slows the whole process down and makes for more agonal breaths in most species, but I think the unpleasantness of this for O poss outweighed by the risk of it being a screamer if unsedated - a lot of goats seem to really not like IVs for anything - used to get a good few object strongly to blood sampling even.

Re: Goat PTS

Tim Cheyne — Thu, 17 May 2012 13:29:29 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]The other option is to shoot it.[/quote]

If it is a pet the owner might not be happy with shooting. In any case I have found that shooting a goat, or a horned sheep. is not as easy as shooting cattle or even horses. The thick skull can deflect a loose bullet (causing some danger to operator and bystanders) and even a conventional captive bolt pistol might not penetrate adequately. If you are unsure, read the method beforehand (UFAW booklet, perhaps) and perhaps consider shooting from behind the horn boss forward into the brain (with a captive bolt, not a loose bullet). That said, IV euthanasia is infinitely preferable to all parties.

Tim.

Re: Goat PTS

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 17 May 2012 10:42:06 GMT

Time to get a gun?

Re: Goat PTS

Mark Rowland — Thu, 17 May 2012 10:03:02 GMT

Is Somulose still as thick as it was? I used to dilute some somulose with pentobarb which makes it easier to inject and gives the pent an extra lethal kick. For a goat this size I seem to remember 5ml somulose + 15ml pent should do the trick. Dont remember there being any explosions!