Diarrhoea with increased exercise

Re: Diarrhoea with increased exercise

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 16 May 2012 11:12:14 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

Erm....only take it on short walks? Seriously, if the dog is being run to exhaustion after/or before it has been fed then body resources are being diverted away from digestion. Utlendigur rather tongue in cheek refers to this being a problem in runners, I find if I do a 100 mile + bike ride then eat a heavy meal afterwards I get diarrhoea - it may be a simple as that.

[/quote]

This is an odd comparison. The dog likely derives huge pleasure from these hikes/fell runs, as you do from cycling. Why deprive it for a bit of self-limiting diarrhoea?

It sounds a bit like the advice that vets give that arthritic dogs should be walked less; especially heart breaking in dogs used to a high plane of exercise. A shorter life (+ drugs) of immense pleasure is surely preferable to an extended life of restricted exercise.

Let the dog run.

[/quote]Don't you recognise sarcasm when you read it David?, you should, you dish enough of it yourself. I light-heartedly suggested this as a possible solution, not THE solution and intimated that altering the feeding regime may be an alternative plan. The arthritic dog is hardly a fair comparison - it will limit its own exercise if it hurts. I'm the last one to suggest depriving an animal of its pleasure by a imposing a treatment regime that compromises its quality of life, after all I'm the first to ignore medical advice if it interferes with my leisure activities. But it is also presumptuous of you assume the dog derives pleasure from this - it may have no choice if the owner insists on taking for long fell walks.

Re: Diarrhoea with increased exercise

David Mills — Tue, 15 May 2012 22:47:55 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[/quote]

This is an odd comparison. The dog likely derives huge pleasure from these hikes/fell runs, as you do from cycling. Why deprive it for a bit of self-limiting diarrhoea?

Let the dog run.

Re: Diarrhoea with increased exercise

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 15 May 2012 22:28:44 GMT

I'm not even convinced the dog needs any treatment!

Re: Diarrhoea with increased exercise

Niall Taylor — Tue, 15 May 2012 16:28:03 GMT

[quote user="eddapb"]I have seen a little JRT, 8 yrs old, not neutered. Absolutely fine in self, did have marked worm burden. Has severe watery D+ when on longer walk. But stools absolutely fine on walks less that 20-30 mins. Abd palp, possibly slightly uncomfortable on caud git palpation. On chicken and bland diet bid. Finances an issue - so trying to find best way forward that is constructive and cost effective. Any suggestions, other than scan and TLI, Cobalamine/Folate? Thanks Ed[/quote]

Anyway...

Getting back to the original question - put it on R/D, give it metronidazole, panacur and prednisolone. That's my chronic enteritis/no money cocktail.

There, how could that possibly be a controversial answer

Niall

Re: Diarrhoea with increased exercise

Malcolm Ness — Tue, 15 May 2012 16:16:59 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Not quite true, Hi5 4:1 is 4 parts of complex carbohydrates to 1 part whey protein[/quote]

A bit like a milkshake without the attractive pink colour then??

Re: Diarrhoea with increased exercise

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 15 May 2012 16:10:43 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"] It has long been known that including protein in a recovery drink aids the recovery process but protein is not of help during exercise itself so the energy drinks for use during exercise don't include it.[/quote] Not quite true, Hi5 4:1 is 4 parts of complex carbohydrates to 1 part whey protein. This is suitable as an energy drink during exercise with properties to enhance endurance rather than as a recovery drink. Works for me anyway.

Re: Diarrhoea with increased exercise

Julian Earl — Tue, 15 May 2012 15:41:08 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] use Hi5 4:1 energy drink much better than Gatorade[/quote]

Several studies have recently shown that good old cow juice is superior to all these fancy rehydration drinks

Neil Wheadon BSc (Hons) Nutrition

PS Martin, presume you don't captain a tandem on long Audaxes then.

[/quote]

The trial was seriously flawed. It was a trial about improving recovery but they compared milk with energy drinks and not with specific recovery drinks. It has long been known that including protein in a recovery drink aids the recovery process but protein is not of help during exercise itself so the energy drinks for use during exercise don't include it. Ergo, not a correct assessment of the value of milk against a suitable manufactured recovery drink.

Also, it was sponsored by whatever the Milk Marketing Board is called nowadays. Not that I am suggesting it was biased of course, absolutely not.

Re: Diarrhoea with increased exercise

Utlendigur — Tue, 15 May 2012 14:35:20 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]Several studies have recently shown that good old cow juice is superior to all these fancy rehydration drinks[/quote]

Nah, you can't beat nice peaty water with a homeopathic dose of dead sheep

(PS never touched Gatorade again - but the choice was that, or water full of glacial silt!)

Re: Diarrhoea with increased exercise

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 15 May 2012 14:33:09 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]Several studies have recently shown that good old cow juice is superior to all these fancy rehydration drinks[/quote] Yeah, but have you tried putting milk in a bidon and asking it to survive for 5-6 hours, it's butter after 25 miles, cottage cheese after 50 and solid cheddar after 100! Studies have shown that Hi5 4:1 allows athletes to perform better and for longer than any other energy drink (OK the study was done by the manufacturers but it works for me).

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]PS Martin, presume you don't captain a tandem on long Audaxes then.[/quote] No fear if you're my stoker, as said I've mastered the art of nutrition now, just need to watch out for pee running down my shorts if you won't let me stop, I find all this rehydration business makes me want to piss every hour if I drink as much as I'm supposed to.

Re: Diarrhoea with increased exercise

Neil Wheadon — Tue, 15 May 2012 14:21:44 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] use Hi5 4:1 energy drink much better than Gatorade[/quote]

Several studies have recently shown that good old cow juice is superior to all these fancy rehydration drinks

Neil Wheadon BSc (Hons) Nutrition

PS Martin, presume you don't captain a tandem on long Audaxes then.

Re: Diarrhoea with increased exercise

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 15 May 2012 14:15:46 GMT

[quote user="Utlendigur"]Or a 40mile ultramarathon and overdo the gatorade and energy gels[/quote] I've got the nutrition bit off to a fine art now on long bike rides, I used to get diarrhoea before running marathons but that was more nerves than anything else!

PS use Hi5 4:1 energy drink much better than Gatorade.

Re: Diarrhoea with increased exercise

Utlendigur — Tue, 15 May 2012 13:48:43 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] I find if I do a 100 mile + bike ride then eat a heavy meal afterwards I get diarrhoea - it may be a simple as that.[/quote]

Or a 40mile ultramarathon and overdo the gatorade and energy gels

I must admit my own dogs (5 of them over 20years) have also tended to pass loose faeces towards the end of long fell runs/walks - I never really thought of it as a problem, because they're fine the rest of the time. But one did pick up Giardia in the hills, and we've also had a few clients' dogs (particularly hill walking ones) over the years with recurrent diarrhoea that have been +ve on Giardia PCR (from what I remember it's only shed intermittently so you might not pick it up on a smear)

Re: Diarrhoea with increased exercise

eddapb — Tue, 15 May 2012 13:39:16 GMT

Absolutely re less walking. Just be a pity to miss something obvious ...

Re: Diarrhoea with increased exercise

eddapb — Tue, 15 May 2012 13:11:23 GMT

Has been going for over a year, prostate fine, bloods NAD, no obvious flagellates on wet prep ... if the owner was not a determined fell walker, the dog would have no problems ... dog was on sensitivity at previous vet - but of course don't know worm status from then ...

Re: Diarrhoea with increased exercise

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 15 May 2012 13:10:49 GMT

Re: Diarrhoea with increased exercise

Utlendigur — Tue, 15 May 2012 12:42:08 GMT

I seem to remember this being a regular topic on the letters page of "Runners' World"

Has the dog always had this problem or recent onset? How long for, any change on diet? Any prostate enlargement? Any biochem so far for eg albumin levels, liver enz?

If finances a problem what about 5 days panacur at giardia dose, change diet (hydrolysed/other prescription/other bland diet in case chicken not suiting) +/- metronidazole. Work up if no change