Receptal in bitches

Re: Receptal in bitches

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 21:45:52 GMT

[quote user="John Rimmer"]

Hmmm....wouldn't have made that mistake had I used abbreviations now would I?

[/quote]

Wriggle, wriggle, wriggle..................

Re: Receptal in bitches

John Rimmer — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 18:19:47 GMT

Hmmm....wouldn't have made that mistake had I used abbreviations now would I?

Re: Receptal in bitches

Rob Loxley — Sun, 22 Apr 2012 23:26:24 GMT

[quote user="John Rimmer"]I am due for my oral preparation of one-hundred and twenty-five grammes of ciprofloxacin[/quote]

that's one hell of a dose

Re: Receptal in bitches

Stephen Courtney — Sun, 22 Apr 2012 17:37:39 GMT

SQ is i think a slightly onomatopoeic abbreviation - 'sub Q taneous' - in my opinion anyway. not something I can recall losing sleep over till now.

Re: Receptal in bitches

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sun, 22 Apr 2012 17:37:33 GMT

[quote user="John Rimmer"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="John Rimmer"]

It's a very standard abbreviation Mr B-H.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subcutaneous_injection

People do it because it's quicker, and everyone knows what they mean.

Oops sorry, I have just realised that it is one fifty-two hours post meridian and I am due for my oral preparation of one-hundred and twenty-five grammes of ciprofloxacin so I must rush.

[/quote]

Slightly Quicker, true.

But subcutaneous would abbreviate as s.c., or s-c, or sc, or if you must, even as s/c. Why the silly Q?

[/quote]

Tradition? Convention? I don't make the rules up :)

I do hope the whole controversy doesn't keep you awake at night!

[/quote]

Nothing keeps me awake at night. It's all I can do to stay awake in the day. What kind of sad person is on the internet on this sunny Sunday afternoon?

I'm just off to the garden to incorporate some carcinogens in pieces of meat while charring them on one side and leaving them half-raw on the other. After that I shall get my wooden stick thing for a game of billiards. Not a Q in sight. Tomorrow I have a subcutaneamous cell carcinoma to excise.

Re: Receptal in bitches

John Rimmer — Sun, 22 Apr 2012 16:27:04 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="John Rimmer"]

It's a very standard abbreviation Mr B-H.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subcutaneous_injection

People do it because it's quicker, and everyone knows what they mean.

Oops sorry, I have just realised that it is one fifty-two hours post meridian and I am due for my oral preparation of one-hundred and twenty-five grammes of ciprofloxacin so I must rush.

[/quote]

Slightly Quicker, true.

But subcutaneous would abbreviate as s.c., or s-c, or sc, or if you must, even as s/c. Why the silly Q?

[/quote]

Tradition? Convention? I don't make the rules up :)

I do hope the whole controversy doesn't keep you awake at night!

Re: Receptal in bitches

John Rimmer — Sun, 22 Apr 2012 16:25:32 GMT

The study was accepted in a peer-reviewed reproduction journal Mr Ness. I respect their opinion more than your own.

Yes it was a small study, but I'm sure more are ongoing. Addressing the problem of infertile bitches is useful in my opinion.

Talking of useful studies accepted by peer-reviewed journals - how is yours coming along? I'm waiting for my Talisker.

Re: Receptal in bitches

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sun, 22 Apr 2012 16:00:04 GMT

[quote user="John Rimmer"]

It's a very standard abbreviation Mr B-H.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subcutaneous_injection

People do it because it's quicker, and everyone knows what they mean.

Oops sorry, I have just realised that it is one fifty-two hours post meridian and I am due for my oral preparation of one-hundred and twenty-five grammes of ciprofloxacin so I must rush.

[/quote]

Slightly Quicker, true.

But subcutaneous would abbreviate as s.c., or s-c, or sc, or if you must, even as s/c. Why the silly Q?

Re: Receptal in bitches

Malcolm Ness — Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:48:17 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Kent"]Conception rates are better in vestibule than subQ. Whatever your KOL might say ;-) Comparison between vestibular and subcutaneous insertion of deslorelin implants for oestrus induction in bitches. Reprod Domest Anim. July 2009;44 Suppl 2(0):83-6.[/quote]

That's the authors conclusion but the data they present doesn't really stack up. 14 (presumably normal) beagle bitches of which only 7 conceived at all. (4/6 with SQ implants and 3/8 with vestib which they claim to be NOT significantly different!) Very small numbers - too small I fear, to draw good conclusion. The stats are weak.

Re: Receptal in bitches

John Rimmer — Sun, 22 Apr 2012 14:55:23 GMT

It's a very standard abbreviation Mr B-H.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subcutaneous_injection

People do it because it's quicker, and everyone knows what they mean.

Oops sorry, I have just realised that it is one fifty-two hours post meridian and I am due for my oral preparation of one-hundred and twenty-five grammes of ciprofloxacin so I must rush.

Re: Receptal in bitches

Michael Woodhouse — Sun, 22 Apr 2012 01:10:29 GMT

Medical shorthand. It's important to be accurate as one tablet PRN is very different to one tablet PR..............

Re: Receptal in bitches

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 21 Apr 2012 23:54:16 GMT

I'm guessing that when people write SQ they mean subcutaneous. Why do they do that?

Re: Receptal in bitches

John Rimmer — Sat, 21 Apr 2012 21:09:36 GMT

I'll take your word for it, can't be bothered looking it up. But I seem to remember SQ for them was interscapular. I would've thought site of implant was dependent on ability to remove more than anything, hence thin skin in umbilical area. Vestibule is interesting....of course irrelevant that in "reproductive area" as acts at pituitary. Would I rather have a stab at vestibule to remove implant or navel? Probably navel. :)

Re: Receptal in bitches

Andrew Kent — Sat, 21 Apr 2012 20:48:52 GMT

Conception rates are better in vestibule than subQ. Whatever your KOL might say ;-) Comparison between vestibular and subcutaneous insertion of deslorelin implants for oestrus induction in bitches. Reprod Domest Anim. July 2009;44 Suppl 2(0):83-6.

Re: Receptal in bitches

John Rimmer — Sat, 21 Apr 2012 12:19:09 GMT

Well this published protocol says "post-umbilical region". And so do others. And so does a KOL I have spoken to who hasn't published. Maybe check your facts before criticising others?

Theriogenology. 2011 Nov;76(8):1561-6. Epub 2011 Aug 26.

Induction of fertile oestrus in the bitch using Deslorelin, a GnRH agonist.

Fontaine E, Mir F, Vannier F, Gérardin A, Albouy M, Navarro C, Fontbonne A.

Source

Centre d'Etudes en Reproduction des Carnivores (CERCA), Ecole Nationale Vétérinaire d'Alfort, Paris, France. efontaine@vet-alfort.fr

Abstract

Oestrus induction in various canine breeds was attempted in 32 bitches. A group of 8 bitches were treated 80-160 d following their previous oestrus (G1) whereas a second group of 24 bitches (G2) were implanted 200-590 d following their previous oestrus. The treatment for each bitch consisted in one Deslorelin implant (Suprelorin® 4,7 mg, Virbac, France), inserted subcutaneously in the post-umbilical region

Re: Receptal in bitches

Andrew Kent — Fri, 20 Apr 2012 22:50:11 GMT

The published protocol for suprelorin is to wait at least 135 days after previous season then implant in submucosa of vestibule (suggestion is local block, make a stab incision, insert implant and place 1 suture so you know location). Season will occur in 5-7 days with ovulation 5-7 days later. Remove post breeding or conception rates are much lower. To remove local block again, incise over implant and lavage area. Quoted success is 90% Other suggestion would be cabergoline at a similar stage of cycle but I am told world out more expensive as may need up to 25 days and is less effective. Andy

Re: Receptal in bitches

Andrew Kent — Fri, 20 Apr 2012 22:39:29 GMT

[quote user="John Rimmer"]

Nice of Intervet to be helpful when Virbac make it! I think it's generally implanted around the naval rather than the vulva. Time of implantation more important than when taken away - it's to do with the rise in GnRH that occurs soon after implantation. When you remove it wouldn't make a difference. In fact pregnancy would continue if it were left I imagine.

[/quote] All the descriptions of the procedure show either vulval or (in one protocol) thigh so not sure where navel comes from. I am told it does need removal or you will get luteal failure.

Re: Receptal in bitches

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 20 Apr 2012 21:18:58 GMT

I was talking about the Receptal! No need to 'implant' and remove anything. The protocol was very simple IIRC

Re: Receptal in bitches

John Rimmer — Fri, 20 Apr 2012 21:04:11 GMT

Nice of Intervet to be helpful when Virbac make it! I think it's generally implanted around the navel rather than the vulva. Time of implantation more important than when taken away - it's to do with the rise in GnRH that occurs soon after implantation. When you remove it wouldn't make a difference. In fact pregnancy would continue if it were left I imagine.

Re: Receptal in bitches

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 20 Apr 2012 21:01:03 GMT

Used it in 2 dogs that never came into season. Both had puppies. Can't remember the protocol but Intervet (as was) were very helpful.

Re: Receptal in bitches

Andrew Kent — Fri, 20 Apr 2012 19:04:16 GMT

The use of suprelorin in this context is a bit complex but I am told is used a lot in the states. The protocol involves implanting the implant under the skin of the vulva quite superficially for a period of time (can't remember how long but can find out if you need) and then removing them all at the same time. Then all dogs should come into season at the same time. Andy

Re: Receptal in bitches

John Rimmer — Fri, 20 Apr 2012 18:23:09 GMT

I'm not sure what you mean. It is off-licence use. But I have heard a KOL say she used it to induce ovulation in bitches, either to synchronise or dormant bitches. Ring Virbac?

Re: Receptal in bitches

Gerry Henry — Fri, 20 Apr 2012 18:01:53 GMT

[quote user="John Rimmer"]

Use Suprelorin

[/quote]

Anything to add to the data sheet John.

Re: Receptal in bitches

John Rimmer — Fri, 20 Apr 2012 16:47:45 GMT

Use Suprelorin

Re: Receptal in bitches

Colin Thomson — Fri, 20 Apr 2012 16:35:55 GMT

Used it - many, many, many years ago. An awful lot of puppies, as I recall. But I think it was in a bitch that was never coming into heat.

Colin