Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

Mike Dale — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 07:59:57 GMT

As a student a million years ago in deepest SW England my mentors used to advise their clients to get the local witch to charm the warts away. This, of course, in the knowledge that they are self limiting in calves of this age.

Years later, I offered a similar suggestion to a lady living alone in a caravan tending a few multi suckled calves on her ancient Jersey cow. He reply was to give me a toothless grin and announce, " I AM the local witch darling!" I don't know what she did, if anything, but by next visit the warts had resolved.

Mike

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 05 Feb 2013 23:42:52 GMT

Old thread but I have recently frozen some warts off using liquid nitrogen and has lead to fairly quick resolution even where impractical to freeze them all.

Must do as in the first post and release a few cells into circulation.

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

vetbl.locum — Tue, 05 Feb 2013 21:51:01 GMT

Nilverm injection was used in long dim past

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

Richard Fox — Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:08:23 GMT

Probably - Tiz an interesting thought!

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 07 Apr 2012 23:01:29 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]If that could be the case, do you think PI animals might be the ones that become overwhelmed by papillomas?[/quote]

Interesting thought. Go test, and report back.

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

mariette asselbergs — Fri, 06 Apr 2012 20:28:50 GMT

"Would suggest that its to do with host immunity rather than the strain" (Richard Fox)

If that could be the case, do you think PI animals might be the ones that become overwhelmed by papillomas?

Mariette

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

Richard Fox — Thu, 05 Apr 2012 09:19:45 GMT

I am just talking about the papillomavirus vaccines not the staph ones etc. I was informed from a specialist dermatopathologist of the fact that there is still not specific evidence they work tis all Michael so I don't push the treatment any more - only as a last resort for those with a severe clinical issue. I think the risk may outweigh the benefits (which is what we all work too?).

There haven't been super recent articles but the more I have read around the subject I am left feeling a little doubtful. Obviously this is only my opinion but I wanted to clarify my current stance (as treatment regimens change all the time) .

"These findings support the hypothesis that the recurrent lesions seen in some human papillomavirus infections, such as recurrent laryngeal papillomatosis, are associated with specific defects in host immunity rather than variations in viral pathogenicity."

Would suggest that its to do with host immunity rather than the strain and thus an autogenous vaccine may not induce a host response that is already absent. It is also therefore difficult to be sure that the actual vaccine has worked or it was just a general stimulation of the patient's immune system?

However if you have found it works then great - I tend not to recommend treatments now that are not back up in the literature as like in Michael's case you are left wondering why it didn't work?

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

Mark Rowland — Thu, 05 Apr 2012 09:13:37 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]Presumably you then give her a somewhat larger sum of money![/quote]

This would depend on whether she was a veterinary witch (believe me I know a few)

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

Alan Tevendale — Thu, 05 Apr 2012 07:19:00 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="Richard Fox"]I don't recommend Autogenous vaccines any more given recent reports on the subject.[/quote]

It was Richard's lot that sold me the vaccine. I wasn't going to say so, but if that's the case............ (they did offer some FOC histo to check it was a wart, but farmer totally disinterested by that point). Wasn't a lot of money so a real shame it never worked.

[/quote]

I'd be interested to hear of why you don't recommend these any more and what these reports you talk about said. As I say my experience of these vaccines has mostly been good.

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 22:06:14 GMT

[quote user="Richard Fox"]I don't recommend Autogenous vaccines any more given recent reports on the subject.[/quote]

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

Niall Taylor — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 17:17:41 GMT

[quote user="Richard Fox"]I don't recommend Autogenous vaccines any more given recent reports on the subject.[/quote]

Is there any decent evidence for or against autogenous vaccines Richard? It always strikes me as a bit Shakesperean; eye of newt, wing of bat and so forth - but then I have been known to be a bit of a sceptic sometimes!

Burying a piece of the wart at a crossroads under a full moon is another technique I've heard about which is usually associated with resolution. Also 'buying' a wart, where a witch gives you a small sum of money, after which the warts resolve - that's an old folk cure. Presumably you then give her a somewhat larger sum of money!

Niall

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

Niall Taylor — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 17:10:35 GMT

[quote user="Lorna McHardy"] That'll be why the charms work [/quote]

You'll find there are very few mild, self limiting conditions which fail to respond to either charms, homeopathy or both - such is the power of voodoo!

Niall

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

Richard Fox — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 16:11:45 GMT

Trauma has always been high in the list of triggers of immune mediated regression. I don't recommend Autogenous vaccines any more given recent reports on the subject.

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

mariette asselbergs — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 12:05:36 GMT

Yes sounds logical Michael, thanks.

Mariette

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 12:00:42 GMT

Mariette, I had always blamed flies, in which case they need quite significant isolation. Flies like the belly and the udder and they seem the most common places they appear. Good dose of Spot-on might be best thing (bear in mind it doesn't cover the udder).

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

mariette asselbergs — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 11:40:03 GMT

Thanks sofar, no Noble Price innovations looks like.

What is the opinion on isolation of affected animals? It does seem to spread in the group, and I have seen (with another client) all heifers with large masses of warts hanging under their belly, suggesting a common way of infection from some common place of acquiring skin lesions or scratching place (?)

Mariette

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

Lorna McHardy — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 07:56:48 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]

This is a self limiting condition, no matter how ginormous they look - end of.

[/quote]

That'll be why the charms work

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 23:56:27 GMT

[quote user="macflea"]

if on udders and teats , will more than likely end up culling them. in any case i have seen , never seen them to regress.

[/quote]

You need to watch longer! Common in heifers but much more rare in cows. The dry period a lot seem to resolve.

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 23:12:14 GMT

[quote user="macflea"]

if on udders and teats , will more than likely end up culling them. in any case i have seen , never seen them to regress.

[/quote]

In Somerset, I knew at least one farmer who could charm warts from teats.

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

macflea — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 22:53:22 GMT

if on udders and teats , will more than likely end up culling them. in any case i have seen , never seen them to regress.

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

Niall Taylor — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 22:08:29 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]One of our clients has his calves (6-8 months) covered in warts. What do you do nowadays?[/quote]

Leave them alone!!! They will fall off of their own accord. When I think of the number of lotions, injections, creams and even charms I've seen over the years it's cringeworthy. This is a self limiting condition, no matter how ginormous they look - end of.

Niall

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

Alan Tevendale — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 20:00:28 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

I tried an autogenous vaccine and it didn't work so never used them again.

[/quote]

I've had a couple of cases that this didn't seem to work for. Certainly doesn't seem to be appropriate for every case. I'm just saying don't rule it out as an option. Maybe I've been lucky.

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

macflea — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 19:10:26 GMT

in my area some vets say remove as many as you can and crush and mix in some ration and feed it back to them to stimulate immunity in gut.

some say let them mature by rubbing in castor oil to get them to mature and twist off.

have very little success with vaccines

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 18:37:19 GMT

I tried an autogenous vaccine and it didn't work so never used them again.

Re: Papilloma virus in cattle what do you do?

Alan Tevendale — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 18:17:53 GMT

I usually recommend using an autogenous vaccine now. I've had quite a few successful cases with using these. Labs usually don't recommend using the same vaccine for multiple animals but I've a few clients that do and seem to get just as good results.

I know that NWL and Abbey Vet Services both are able to make these vaccines.