guinea pig dental

Re: guinea pig dental

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 13 Jun 2013 20:15:14 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]What's BASC? In my world it's a shooting association but I don't imagine they are too concerned about guinea pigs![/quote]

I meat BSAVA, but was also on a shooting forum at the same time.

BSAVA exotics book.

Re: guinea pig dental

Marie Kubiak — Thu, 13 Jun 2013 13:50:29 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]Weirdly when we changed medetomidine brand the sedation didn't seem as good, when we went back to the original make it was fine again so there may be some variation in response[/quote]

Had the same thing. Tried one beginning with an S and back to good old Domitor! The generic seemed very variable in dogs with some not touched and some nicely sedated. With Domitor everything sedates nicely and predictably.

Marie your doses are hugely lower than the BASC book!

[/quote]

Good to know others have had some medetomidine issues, we've also gone back to slightly pricier versions and are sticking to it.

What's BASC? In my world it's a shooting association but I don't imagine they are too concerned about guinea pigs! There are masses of protocols out there of variable reliability - some are great but I've just got used to my little combo and prefer to stick to what I'm familiar and comfortable with. Plus I haven't lost one on it (having said that, and tempted fate obviously means this afternoon will be a catastrophe).

Marie

Re: guinea pig dental

Bob Russell — Thu, 13 Jun 2013 09:20:34 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]Guinea pigs are obligate nasal breathers [/quote]

See - You're never too old to learn anything, I and I'm sure others have picked up a great tip here.

Thankyou Marie

[/quote]

That was my exact comment as soon as I read the post. you really do learn something new every day. How did I miss that one!

Re: guinea pig dental

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 23:58:56 GMT

Marie your doses are hugely lower than the BASC book!

Re: guinea pig dental

patrick murphy — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 15:23:17 GMT

at NAVC one of cool exotic dental guys exploited this by using a soft urinary cath as nasal delivery system for gp's and I think rabbits. but it sure did not work for me. has anyone on this list cracked it?

Re: guinea pig dental

Neil Wheadon — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 15:18:46 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]Guinea pigs are obligate nasal breathers [/quote]

See - You're never too old to learn anything, I and I'm sure others have picked up a great tip here.

I'll try the higher medetomidine dose next time. In this case it did go IM and will stick with the midazolam for points raised

Thankyou Marie

Re: guinea pig dental

Marie Kubiak — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 15:00:47 GMT

I'm slightly confused - are you trying to mask over the mouth? Guinea pigs are obligate nasal breathers so this won't be helpful to you or the guinea pig. Placing a small mask (or even the open end of the tubing of the circuit) just over the nose leaves the mouth free and the guinea pig able to breathe the supplied O2.

With the injectable combination above, this is still roughly what I routinely use for most small mammals and find as long as it all goes IM then it gives good sedation and I can do most minor procedures. With new info on rodent analgesia requirements I have recently upped the buprenorphine to 0.06-0.1mg/kg though which may give a slight increase in depth of sedation but not much. Weirdly when we changed medetomidine brand the sedation didn't seem as good, when we went back to the original make it was fine again so there may be some variation in response (though I was under the impression most medetomidine injectables were fairly identical.There are combinations using up to 0.3mg/kg medetomidine in guinea pigs but the cardiac and respiratory depression put me off, there was some work done by Vittorio Cappello on medetomidine sedation and he advocated no higher than 0.15mg.kg for safe sedation. Use of ketamine instead of midazolam will give you a more profound sedation but recovery may be less smooth and rapid, and muscle relaxation is slightly less.

For painful or prolonged procedures then we add in Iso as well as the O2 by mask. I don't do any sedative/anaesthetics without at least providing O2 as herbivore anatomy doesn't favour effective respiration when unconscious so all will have a tube/mask throughout.

Marie

Re: guinea pig dental

Neil Wheadon — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 14:37:42 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"] Mask with O2[/quote]

This was the point of the post. Trying to dental a guinea pig or in my case look down its throat is pretty difficult through a mask. (And iso is irritant to guinea pig) What I was looking for was a good injectable anaesthetic combination for a guinea pig and tried the one that Maria kindly suggested. I found it was a great sedative, but I couldn't place a mouth gag, so was asking if anyone else had tried these doses or is there a better combination?

Neil

Re: guinea pig dental

Anthony Dennison — Tue, 11 Jun 2013 17:01:40 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]Does anyone use sub cut injections? I find domitor, vetergesic and ketamine works really well subcut in rabbits [/quote]

I've found it takes flipping ages for them to go to sleep when given subcut, prefer giving it i/v

Re: guinea pig dental

Stephen Courtney — Tue, 11 Jun 2013 16:57:37 GMT

I find the IM dose rates to be significant volumes, and I hate giving them that way.

Does anyone use sub cut injections? I find domitor, vetergesic and ketamine works really well subcut in rabbits, haven't tried in a piggie though

Re: guinea pig dental

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 11 Jun 2013 15:17:37 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]The medetomidine dose seems quite low as Guinea Pigs have fewer alpha receptors.[/quote]

The BSAVA book states 0.5mg/kg for medetomidine with 40mg/kg ketamine. That is what I have used for g-pigs and not lost one yet. Mask with O2, but rarely need iso top ups.

Re: guinea pig dental

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 11 Jun 2013 14:43:21 GMT

How long is surgery likely to take?

Wynne

Re: guinea pig dental

Neil Wheadon — Tue, 11 Jun 2013 13:19:06 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]0.05mg/kg bupre, 0.1mg/kg medetomidine, 0.5mg/kg midazolam all given together as a single injection.[/quote]

I tried this today (injected IM) as wanted to examine a Guinea Pigs throat. It was very good as a sedative but I had to gas down for 5 minutes. The medetomidine dose seems quite low as Guinea Pigs have fewer alpha receptors. Has anyone else tried this combination?

Neil

Re: guinea pig dental

Lorna McHardy — Fri, 23 Mar 2012 19:50:36 GMT

Thanks again... will arrange dental for the next time I'm there :0))

Re: guinea pig dental

Marie Kubiak — Fri, 23 Mar 2012 19:41:24 GMT

0.05mg/kg bupre, 0.1mg/kg medetomidine, 0.5mg/kg midazolam all given together as a single injection.

Medetomidine reversed with equal volume atipamezole.

Marie

Re: guinea pig dental

Lorna McHardy — Fri, 23 Mar 2012 19:27:09 GMT

Thank you, Marie... what dose?

Re: guinea pig dental

Marie Kubiak — Fri, 23 Mar 2012 19:22:13 GMT

I would do lateral and 30degree lateral oblique rads first to assess for any potential problems (ankylosis/hyperplasia at apex/infection) and then treat as you would a rabbit, albeit slightly more delicately handled! I use pink needles to cut the ligaments.

GA- I use medetomidine/buprenorphine/midazolam IM then maintain on O2 +/- Iso as needed with a nasal mask.

Marie

Re: guinea pig dental

Lorna McHardy — Fri, 23 Mar 2012 19:15:02 GMT

the other three, even!