Colposuspension - any success?

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

Lorna McHardy — Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:29:14 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

[quote user="John Rimmer"] And I'm not going to point our Lorna's blatant errors either! Could be here all day! [/quote]

What a pleasant chap you are, therefore; surely this is an internet forum, not an English language examination?

[/quote]

It's just as well it isn't. Just think of the mortification when the difference between 'our' and 'out' is highlighted during the correction process...

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

Rob Loxley — Sat, 10 Mar 2012 17:02:30 GMT

[quote user="John Rimmer"]And I'm not going to point our Lorna's blatant errors either! Could be here all day![/quote]

What a pleasant chap you are, therefore; surely this is an internet forum, not an English language examination?

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 22:58:19 GMT

[quote user="John Rimmer"]One definition of infer is a synonym of imply.[/quote]

Norrin my dictionary 'taint.

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

Malcolm Ness — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 21:25:16 GMT

When someone has an apparently boundless talent to mis-read, mis-quote and mis-interpret, then subtleties like inference are superfluous.

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

Lorna McHardy — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 21:18:11 GMT

[quote user="John Rimmer"]

I never exhibited pedantry. I just expressed annoyance at illiteracy.

[/quote]

LOL <splutter>

On that note, I shall call it a day.

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

John Rimmer — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 21:05:05 GMT

And I'm not going to point our Lorna's blatant errors either! Could be here all day! Noone is perfect. I never exhibited pedantry. I just expressed annoyance at illiteracy. I can spell common words. Everybody should be able to.

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

John Rimmer — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 21:03:40 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

I'm British. We are in Britain. Are you American?

[[/quote]

My nationality is irrelevant. The FORM in Britain is license as noun and license as verb, but this is only form. My use was not incorrect.

You use a full-stop after Mr. This is incorrect. Mr, St, Dr, etc - common abbreviations - should not have a full-stop after them. But I'm not a pedant so I'm not going to go spotting any more!

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

John Rimmer — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 20:59:37 GMT

[quote user="Lorna McHardy"]

[quote user="John Rimmer"]

Nothing wrong with my use of the word inferring.

[/quote]

Depends on what you meant. If you meant that Malcolm was implying stuff he wasn't saying, then the word you wanted was 'imply'. If you meant that Malcolm was inferring something from something somebody else said, then certainly, that was the word you wanted. Your context suggests strongly that what you meant was 'imply', and like Evelyn, I assumed that was what you meant. I wouldn't normally spell stuff like this out, as confusing 'infer' and 'imply' is a common error and it's a little discourteous to go on about it; but then again, you've been quite quick off the mark with similar discourtesies, so I don't feel it's as out of place as it might be in other circumstances.

Of course, if you did in fact mean 'infer', then I apologize, but I'd quite like to know what you actually thought Malcolm was inferring because I'm at a loss about it.

[quote user="John Rimmer"]

People in glass houses and all that....

[/quote]

Just so.

[/quote]

See above post.

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

John Rimmer — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 20:58:51 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="John Rimmer"]Nothing wrong with my use of the word inferring.[/quote]

You sure?

[/quote]

Absolutely. One definition of infer is a synonym of imply. So your argument is silly.

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

Lorna McHardy — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 20:35:23 GMT

[quote user="John Rimmer"]

Nothing wrong with my use of the word inferring.

[/quote]

Of course, if you did in fact mean 'infer', then I apologize, but I'd quite like to know what you actually thought Malcolm was inferring because I'm at a loss about it.

[quote user="John Rimmer"]

People in glass houses and all that....

[/quote]

Just so.

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 20:26:34 GMT

[quote user="John Rimmer"]Nothing wrong with my use of the word inferring.[/quote]

You sure?

[quote user="John Rimmer"]You are technically correct regarding form with the license/licence thing in British English, but my use is commonplace in the US.[/quote]

I'm British. We are in Britain. Are you American?

[quote user="John Rimmer"]I have spotted at least one error in one of your posts Evelyn, without specifically looking. People in glass houses and all that....[/quote]

I wouldn't be at all surprised. It's all the fun of the forum. However, the rules of pedantry tennis require you to actually quote the error. Saying you have spotted one doesn't count.

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

John Rimmer — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 20:20:19 GMT

Nothing wrong with my use of the word inferring.

You are technically correct regarding form with the license/licence thing in British English, but my use is commonplace in the US.

I have spotted at least one error in one of your posts Evelyn, without specifically looking. People in glass houses and all that....

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 20:09:10 GMT

[quote user="John Rimmer"]I know what he said, but I also know what I think he was inferring.[/quote]

I know I think you mean implying, not inferring.

[quote user="John Rimmer"]a couple of years to obtain license.[/quote]

Licence.

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

John Rimmer — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 20:01:20 GMT

I know what he said, but I also know what I think he was inferring.

Presumingly he also avoids use of Trocoxil, because again we don't have data on life-time use. Same with lots of other licensed products - data only needed for a couple of years to obtain license.

Interesting attitude. You can't get lifelong data if noone uses a product until there is lifelong data available :-/

I'd rather not go into my medical history, but I am having infusions of a highly experimental drug with no data for safety beyond months, but I'm happy to try it. Someone has to be there first.

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

Lorna McHardy — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 11:57:16 GMT

[quote user="John Rimmer"]

You seemed to be saying that something should be avoided unless we knew what lifetime outcome was.

[/quote]

You might like to re-read what Malcolm actually said.

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

John Rimmer — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 10:14:18 GMT

You seemed to be saying that something should be avoided unless we knew what lifetime outcome was. Therefore I presume you steer clear of therapies were we don't have such data. I thought the point was simple :-/

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

Malcolm Ness — Thu, 08 Mar 2012 22:04:45 GMT

[quote user="John Rimmer"]I"m not sure what point you are trying to make Malcolm, but I presume that you steer clear of all ground-breaking veterinary medicine. Strange.[/quote]

???

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

John Rimmer — Thu, 08 Mar 2012 20:10:08 GMT

I"m not sure what point you are trying to make Malcolm, but I presume that you steer clear of all ground-breaking veterinary medicine. Strange.

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

Rob Loxley — Thu, 08 Mar 2012 17:20:52 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]I can't see where the confusion/controversy is coming from but Suprelorin is a medical treatment [/quote]

I hadn't picked up on that, but it's always good to learn new things. In fact I have a case that isn't too great on current meds that I'll discuss it with.

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

Malcolm Ness — Thu, 08 Mar 2012 17:04:16 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]Any difference to a life long physical interference with the endocrine system? [/quote]

After several generations of neutering, we have a reasonable idea of the consequences of that. The fact that you pose a question rather than describing the consequence of life-long Suprelorin speaks volumes.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am not suggesting that the treatment shouldn't be used but there is an obvious lack of good quality efficacy data and, to my knowledge, no safety data relevant to the proposed treatment period ie life-long. Caution is appropriate.

If things do go wrong and you haven't discussed (and documented the discussion) then you are at risk. Clients are more and more likely to consult Dr Google and his nasty litigation lawyer friend.

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

Mark Holmes — Thu, 08 Mar 2012 16:56:34 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]A life-long chemical interference with the endocrine system is not an obviously benign prospect.[/quote]

Any difference to a life long physical interference with the endocrine system?

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

Malcolm Ness — Thu, 08 Mar 2012 16:52:22 GMT

[quote user="John Rimmer"]BUT - Suprelorin MUST be one of the medical options tried ([/quote]

I can't see where the confusion/controversy is coming from but Suprelorin is a medical treatment so it should be considered before surgery.

[quote user="John Rimmer"]If the dog has Suprelorin 9.4mg and lives 10 years, 10 implants? Whoopy doo. Much better than the stress of surgery.[/quote]

Certainly. However, I believe that such use would be off license and personally I would like to see some long-term safety data. A life-long chemical interference with the endocrine system is not an obviously benign prospect.

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

John Rimmer — Thu, 08 Mar 2012 14:05:14 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

condemmed to a life of .........implants

[/quote]

Slightly over the top? If the dog has Suprelorin 9.4mg and lives 10 years, 10 implants? Whoopy doo. Much better than the stress of surgery.

Again, I agree with Mark. People often go on about Suprelorin and microchips being painful but not in my experience. Dog doesn't have the density of pain receptors in the skin to tell the difference in any case. Don't get me on started on blue versus green needles for puppies and kittens!

And ref Malcolm's response to my earlier post where he said (paraphrasing here) that it's not a choice of med or surg, surg is for when med has failed - I agree wholeheartedly - BUT - Suprelorin MUST be one of the medical options tried (along with oestrogen/alpha adrenergic agonist).

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

Mark Holmes — Thu, 08 Mar 2012 13:32:15 GMT

Having been through it. Owned an incontinent dog which failed to respond to medication, needed surgery which failed and then euthanased I would not do it again. Particularly when 12 monthly implants are available.

I understand them wanting to avoid daily medication, I would implant with 9.4mg (12 months) suprelorin and hope she was one of the 70% who respond to that alone. Repeat implants at booster time no additional visits why operate?

Re: Colposuspension - any success?

Neil Wheadon — Thu, 08 Mar 2012 13:24:17 GMT

The basic premise of this question is 'to put yourself in the place of an owner.'

You have a 3 year old bitch that's puddling all over the place. You are condemmed to a life of tablets/syrups/implants and the associated costs and inconvenience with over 10 years of therapy.

If there is a simple? surgical fix that can be completed (Langford has estimated £1500) then would I go for this? Looking at the replies Malcolm has indicated that the success rate for bitches that hadn't had previous therapy was very good. Langford have quoted 50% 'cured' 40 % better, 10% no difference at all, and these are bitches that have failed medical therapy. If however it seems that in a 'fresh' bitch the chances are higher then is this a realistic option.

Neil