Epilepsy and Phenols

Re: Epilepsy and Phenols

Mark Lowrie — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:37:35 GMT

Hi Alex,

Catamenial epilepsy is described in humans, i.e. seizures occurring at a specific phase in the menstrual cycle. It has been described that oestrogen is pro-epileptic and progesterone is anti-epileptic but these studies were experimental and so it is not truly known what the link between sex hormones and seizures are in animals.

No study has yet shown a link between neuter status and seizure frequency in cats or dogs. Therefore I do not routinely recommend neutering dogs with seizures. And anecdotally I don't feel I have noticed any obvious correlation. However, if seizures are severe and refractory to medication then I certainly do suggest these patients are neutered in case there is a link. A study looking into this would be useful.

Re: Epilepsy and Phenols

Michael Woodhouse — Sun, 26 Feb 2012 23:04:38 GMT

[quote user="Justine D"]

There have still been no seizures since the removal of TCP..

Thanks,

Justine

[/quote]

I suppose the only way to test the hypothesis would be if you get 2 months seizure free then reintroduce the TCP. Bit like a food trial in a dog.

Re: Epilepsy and Phenols

Mark Hedberg — Sun, 26 Feb 2012 08:39:06 GMT

As a working hypothesis it's an interesting one...how about a VS.org study? Why not ask a few other clients with epileptic dogs if they use phenol based disinfectants?

Re: Epilepsy and Phenols

J Monz — Sat, 25 Feb 2012 15:10:01 GMT

Hi Niall,

Yes I'm afraid I am guilty of casting a very wide undiscerning net into the possible causes of these seizures. I have talked to specialists in different areas ranging from the endocrinologist to the liver specialist to the obstetrician to the neurologist in an attempt to stop, improve or manage these seizures. I am aware of the high % of cases that are simply idiopathic...but he is a different dog, and seems there are too many clues that could be pointing to something...too many to leave uninvestigated. I was told by one of the vets that his prognosis was very poor.

I wasn't able to find published papers on the subject so the information that I came across were from unverified/unreliable sources, but in various parts indicated that phenols CAN cause seizures. Hence, on here asking the pro's :D

The following are the various aforementioned sources:

http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+4240

http://www.hpa.org.uk/webc/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1194947332255

http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/chemical/pim412.htm

There have still been no seizures since the removal of TCP..

Thanks,

Justine

Re: Epilepsy and Phenols

Niall Taylor — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 18:58:25 GMT

[quote user="Justine D"]after a bit of research found it to be toxic to cats and causing seizures in dogs.[/quote]

Do you have the references about the link with siezures in dogs Justine? Obviously toxicity in cats is well established but once you start casting an undiscerning net for causes of siezures you'll get everything from E-numbers to malign planetary influences

Cheers,

Niall

Re: Epilepsy and Phenols

Alex Gough — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 18:09:00 GMT

Hi Mark. Do you recommend neutering your epileptic bitches? I usually do, so haven't personally seen many cases of unneutered epileptic bitches to decide for myself whether they seizure worse in association with seasons.

Alex

Re: Epilepsy and Phenols

Mark Lowrie — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 16:52:55 GMT

I have been a bit quiet on this thread so far. Justine had messaged me about this previously and I must be honest and say I know of no link with TCP and seizures.

I think the link with oestrogen and seizures is tenuous in dogs although in humans oestrogen has been found to lower the threshold for seizures. Interesting point about phenol rings though, I hadn’t thought of this – I never enjoyed chemistry.

I suggested Justine posted this thread in case anyone had anecdotal evidence of similar cleaning products and removal of them precipitating a cure for seizures. I stress the word ‘anecdotal’ as I appreciate we will never know if any of these truly triggered seizures.

Re: Epilepsy and Phenols

Bob Russell — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 09:38:17 GMT

Almost all organic chemicals have phenol rings (dipping back years to school days) so it is not surprising there are lots of similarities. It will be interesting to hear from the neurologists!