Rabies vaccination

Re: Rabies vaccination

Simon Neuhoff — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 18:50:54 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]

Just a thought- has anyone discussed this with any of the vaccine manufacturers and found out what they base their licensing on. For example, we use Nobivac Rabies vaccine- licensed for a 3 year interval between boosters following a single injection. Surely they must must have some evidence of its protective effect to allow this licensing, or is this just based on antibody titres rather than challenge studies?

Another thought- humans are vaccinated against tetanus with a single dose every 5-10 years I believe (its been a long time since I had one and should probably get another!) yet we vaccinate horses every 2 years. A well known and prominent equine specialist used to say if a horse has even seen a tetanus vaccine its likely to be protected for life (don't know how true that actually is!)

[/quote]

Challenge studies with rabies would be rather problematic I think! Maybe there are some retrospective data?

Re: Rabies vaccination

Richard Carter — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 18:28:45 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]if a horse has even seen a tetanus vaccine its likely to be protected for life[/quote]

Suspect it would depend on if the horse is exposed to clostridia regularly and achieving / maintaining a natural balance of immunity which it probably would given most stable conditions. Certainly dairy cattle do not maintain a good immunity against botulism in absence of natural challenge and neither do sheep against blackquarter/quarter evil.

Re: Rabies vaccination

Kate Richardson — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 13:16:51 GMT

Re: Rabies vaccination

Christopher Saul — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 00:16:10 GMT

I have to concede that we have no legal leg to stand on in attempting to get owners to go for anything other than a single vaccine, so I just give one. However there is something that worries me...........

In humans, the recommended minimum course is 3 vaccines over a course of a month followed by a booster at 1 year, I know that we're a different species and all, but I find it hard to believe we are that fundamentally different when the disease affects all mammals.

I also agree the titre testing was no more than arbitary (though did at least prove an animal had at least had a vaccine). More concerning than anything to me though is the loss of the 6 month rule. What's to stop someone unwittingly vaccinating an animal incubating the disase and importing it? nothing.

Is anyone else getting vaccinated now?

Re: Rabies vaccination

Andrew Kent — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 22:49:42 GMT

Possibly. But if 1 gives protection (even with a lower titre) why give 2? Vaccine company and DEFRA are happy with 1 so why should we not be?

Re: Rabies vaccination

plantagenet — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 22:26:08 GMT

If 2 injections are more likely to achieve a higher titre than 1 (according to the vaccine manufacturer) is it right to suppose that 2 injections are more likely to achieve disease protection than 1. I am just thinking aloud - I guess that supposition underlies my rational. I am quite prepared to be wrong.

Re: Rabies vaccination

Rob Loxley — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 16:54:05 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Kent"]But the recommended titre by DEFRA is a random number rather than a definitive proof of protection[/quote]

I assume it comes from the WHO. But then we're not following their other, human, rabies vaccination guidelines.

Re: Rabies vaccination

Andrew Kent — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 15:18:51 GMT

But the recommended titre by DEFRA is a random number rather than a definitive proof of protection. As others have said there is a big diffence between achieving a desired titre and achieving protection. Under the current scheme I see no justification of suggesting a second vaccine to clients as we have nothing to base it on. Andy

Re: Rabies vaccination

plantagenet — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 11:51:26 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

[quote user="plantagenet"]

I discuss the occasional titre failure with owners and tell them we used to recommend 2 injections - most clients opt for 2.

[/quote]

And now that the blood test is gone, you still recommend 2 injections? If so, why?

[/quote]

I don't - I discuss that in the past we had experienced very occasional titre failure with 1 and therefore USED TO recommend 2, on the grounds that that achieved the 'desired' titre more predictably (I don't think so far that is unusual for what most colleagues were saying or the vaccine manufacturers)

I think it is reasonable to assume that dogs achieving that dogs with this titre have reasonable immunity to disease.

This is what I discuss with the owner and most seem happy to go with 2. No pressure, no recommendation, please don't say I am doing it for money because the 2nd vaccine is not much above cost, just discussion. Actually it is what I have done with my own dog and if rabies is ever in GB (perhaps I should say when) my cat will be first in the queue.

Re: Rabies vaccination

Anthony Todd — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 10:51:24 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]"the commonest way for people to get bitten by rabid animals was by their own ...CATS! [/quote]

Didn't enter my head!!

Then I found this easily:

Cats are now the most frequently reported domestic rabid animals in the United States. Rabies in cats is now three times that for canine rabies. In 2006 there were 74 dogs and 247 cats positive for rabies in the United States

I hope I'm unique [in this regard....]

Re: Rabies vaccination

mariette asselbergs — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 00:00:10 GMT

"the commonest way for people to get bitten by rabid animals was by their own ...CATS! for some reason everyone would vaccinate their dogs - possibly due to the legal issue - but almost no one would vacinate cats for rabies."

Totally agree!

And don't forget wildlife: the fox, deer or others which lose fear and stroll into villages and people's houses in the "dumb phase" of rabies.

Mariette.

Re: Rabies vaccination

Stephen Courtney — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 22:10:57 GMT

The legal minimum requirement is one injection, so long as the animal is over three months old, followed by a 21 day wait. that's it.

In countries with endemic rabies, the usual requirement (statutory) is a vaccination at three months of age, repeated a year later, and thereafter every three years.

I did almost all my rabies blood tests after a single dose of rabisin, and never had a single failure personally. Those i came across had actually all had 2 injections, but I suspect this was a coincidence. and i never ever saw a trend of higher titers in animals that had 2 rather than 1 vaccination. the actual antibody level seemed very random to me.

The risk of a client's pet coming across rabies in continental Europe is about the same as getting struck by lightning. If a client was worried enough to ask, i would actually recommend following variation of the African protocol, ie the one outlined in the second paragraph. One at three months, one a year later, and thereafter whenever mandated by local law as a bare minimum. Works fine, and that's in a place where rabid animals are not uncommon, albeit not exactly swarming out of the bush either. There is far more risk to pets from other endemic vector borne diseases, but as these have minimal impact on human health they have no importance at all to the EU folk who decide these things.

As a final point, the commonest way for people to get bitten by rabid animals was by their own ...CATS! for some reason everyone would vaccinate their dogs - possibly due to the legal issue - but almost no one would vacinate cats for rabies.

Re: Rabies vaccination

Rob Loxley — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 18:40:59 GMT

[quote user="plantagenet"]

I discuss the occasional titre failure with owners and tell them we used to recommend 2 injections - most clients opt for 2.

[/quote]

And now that the blood test is gone, you still recommend 2 injections? If so, why?

Re: Rabies vaccination

plantagenet — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 18:36:40 GMT

I discuss the occasional titre failure with owners and tell them we used to recommend 2 injections - most clients opt for 2.

Re: Rabies vaccination

Rob Loxley — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 15:07:03 GMT

[quote user="nobbygonzo"]We use Nobivac Rabies and had only occassional failures with single vaccines but they obviously happen[/quote]

Failure to achieve the titre required by the PETS scheme, or failure to be protected from contracting rabies?

Re: Rabies vaccination

Andrew Kent — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 12:29:08 GMT

We have had a discussion about this issue but as it is not a requirement of either the data sheet or the travel scheme I don't think we have the authority to make this a recommendation, even if we may anecdotally believe it is better practice. Andy