DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

Bob Russell — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 10:54:26 GMT

We have a couple of 'American Bulldogs'. One looks like a boxer cross (seems to be the correct appearance), the other is a Pit Bull type. I am not going to get into the arguments around what should happen to an individual dog based on its appearance alone because I make a judgement on how it behaves with me!

If it comes in wagging its tail and knocks me over in its enthusiasm to see me I like it. If it comes in growling I do not! Few if any of these dogs are pure anything!

Deed not breed sums things up for me but (and it is a big but) I will take the growling Pit Bull type/Staffie cross a LOT more seriously than many/most other breeds. Pit Bull types are routinely described as all sorts of crosses/breeds in the UK.

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

argyro koukouseli — Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:49:59 GMT

IMO pit bulls and pure breed amec bullogs do not look alike.i cant explain it,they look different,as a hole, in my eyes.Maybe cause i come across those breeds a lot.And it gets even better...out of the 4 dogos in the city...3 are my clients...i treat those breeds like any other.and now i sound like a super doper dog whisperer or something or a ten feet tall woman,which i am not......anyway,i would like to know,if any of my dogo/clients wants to enter UK with the dog,they can not?

i am strating to feel like i am breed predisposisioned myself,and happy if i retire with my face on!(just trying to be funny here,and not offend anybody)

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

Bob Russell — Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:37:46 GMT

It is a single bite and not an attack. The damage was particularly bad because of the size of the dog and the fact it was the face bitten. It is a banned breed in the UK and correctly so!

I suspect we have all had a single warning bite at some stage but hopefully have more sense than to put our faces in the firing line!

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

Mark Holmes — Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:12:06 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]

It might be the mail but look at this

[/quote]

The bite is very quick. It's not a sustained attack nor does it hold on. She does put her face right up close to the dog

It's a dogo argentino. Isn't that one of the breeds banned under the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act in the UK?

[/quote]

Yes I think thats the breed, I posted it because it demonstrates stupidity on the presenter's part but also the unpredictability of some dogs as well. It showed no inclination towards aggression prior to the strike.

The headline is typically sensationalist relatively to the video

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

Robin Grimmer — Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:09:00 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]

It might be the mail but look at this

[/quote]

The bite is very quick. It's not a sustained attack nor does it hold on. She does put her face right up close to the dog.

It's a dogo argentino. Isn't that one of the breeds banned under the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act in the UK?

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

Mark Holmes — Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:51:25 GMT

It might be the mail but look at this

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

bob lehner — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 12:49:06 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"] I still feel the only way forward is compulsory chipping and neutering of all Staffies and Staffie types by six months of age! The broad head is easy to identify in almost all cases![/quote]

Report in the Daily Telegraph on debate in the House of Lords yesterday re poss Govt plans for compulsory microchipping of all dogs:

'Lord Renton of Mount Harry, a former Conservative minister, urged the Government to think carefully before insisting on compulsory microchipping because many dogs “took badly” to having a chip inserted'

Give me strength.... how do fecking eejits like that end up in the House of Lords ???

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 12:31:25 GMT

Micheal You may very well be right I know VDS store something "just in case "

Wynne

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

Bob Russell — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 10:53:31 GMT

The point of my post was to show that it can be very difficult and unreliable to tell these breeds apart. It is quite possible that Wiki have not posted good or reliable pictures anyway but without pedigree documentation (and positive identification) these breeds and types are difficult or impossible to distinguish in practice.

To 'ask someone more familiar with the breeds morphology to check the dog' is very unlikely to be of much help.

DNA will not tell you if the dog is going to bite! It has been quite interesting to do a little research but there seems to be no reliable DNA test for Pit Bulls!

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

argyro koukouseli — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 10:26:00 GMT

but i would say the colors of the last pic are american bulldog-ish.

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

argyro koukouseli — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 10:08:38 GMT

i ll take my shot,and say the third one is a red nose pit bull.its not a matter of just the face,but whole body morphology and color,so the last pic is not a good one to make conclusions from

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

Bob Russell — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:58:38 GMT

I still feel the only way forward is compulsory chipping and neutering of all Staffies and Staffie types by six months of age! The broad head is easy to identify in almost all cases!

Registered breeders of Staffordshire Bull Terriers (although I am far from a fan of breeders) can keep the nanny dog going!

There would be no requirement for dogs to be held pending a decision and in cases of argument the courts could easily produce orders preventing breeding from a particular animal. If in doubt neuter!

Failure to chip and comply would lead to loss of the pet.

Carried out properly this should be humane, no one loses their pet (unless it or they misbehave) and the rescues no longer get clogged up with Staffie crosses that are notoriously difficult to re-home.

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

Bob Russell — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:35:34 GMT

Hannah Bose has it right! Well done!

The boxer cross looking one is, according to the Wiki tome of wisdom, a champion American Bulldog! No tricks here but the third one down is the Pit Bull!

Most dogs described as American 'Bulldogs' out there are, in reality, Pit Bull types. Some are nice as pie but many are anything but!

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

Lorna McHardy — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:12:33 GMT

Hm. Well... I suppose it's possible to die from a ruptured spleen due to being bitten on the leg and falling over six days previously, but the thought that there might be more to this one does rather intrude itself. Not an excuse for anyone owning a dog that escapes and attacks someone, of course.

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

Clive Ansell — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 07:30:02 GMT

Hot off the press last night - Another death by "pit bull type"

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 00:34:11 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]I think VDS will store vascectomy samples[/quote]

They will? I have a cupboard full going back 20 odd years. I shall forward them on to them tomorrow on your advice!

[Wynne, are you thinking of the blood samples taken at equine vettings?]

I know some lovely staffy type dogs that are very well behaved. Give me one of them any-day than the little shits that bite. It's not any particular breed at fault, it's the morons that can't control them. Blame the owner not the dog (charge with GBH if your dog attacks?)

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

HMC — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 21:49:01 GMT

I'm guessing the third dog. I heard something about 'must have a pink nose for the police to say it is a pit bull'...

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

Dagmar Steele — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 18:46:41 GMT

No. four I'm not sure, the first two are American bulldogs. One of my employees has an American bulldog, it's fine with people but a nightmare with other dogs and so strong that you need to spend a lot of time in a fitness center to handle it (even though it's not too badly educated). The pit bulls have become very rare here since the first dangerous dogs laws came out. I never had any issues with them, it's the jack russels that drive me nuts. But the pit breeds can present a huge problem with other dogs.

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 18:13:34 GMT

No 4 I'd say as it is a loaded question it is the most cute, 2 of the others look like Staffies and No 2 like a large boxer! I was involved in the in the licencing of Pit Bulls back in the day and we saw about 100 as we were the only practice with a tattoo gun locally. Of those only one was in any way aggressive and some were owned by little old ladies. The aggressive one was owned by someone who looked like Mr T and was probably a drug dealer. Nuff said - its not the dog that makes them aggressive but the owner.

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

Bob Russell — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 18:05:56 GMT

Three of these are American Bulldogs (Wiki) and one is a Pit Bull. Who would like to identify the Pit Bull? I am not convinced the breeds are that distinctive except perhaps at show level!

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

Mark Holmes — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 18:04:00 GMT

[quote user="argyro koukouseli"]

50%of my clients own pitbulls(lucky me),its something like fashion/tredy among teenagers here to own one...none of which ever tried do bit me but really difficult to examine cause they are so nervous and energetic all the time.On the other hand lots of poodles or chiuauas tried to leave their mark on my hands cause people assume that only medium/large breed dogs need training.

[/quote]

Small dogs are not as inclined to leave life threatening injuries if they are not adequately controlled though. Some of the nastiest little btards we have are Lhaso Apsos thankfully their small size and the absence of a face limits the damage they can cause. I think licensing is appropriate for some breeds of dogs, and those dogs whose danger lies in their size and power should be licensed. After all it is necessary for a shot gun.

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

argyro koukouseli — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:55:37 GMT

i am not aware of such test.and i cant imagine how this could be performed and by who.it sounds like fraud.And i do not understand why they want this test?to decide whether to keep the dog or not based on dna testing?

From what i know amarican bulldogs can come with paper certification from breeders,but there is not such certification available fot pitbulls.

so where did they get the dog from?Also american bulldogs do not look like pitbulls at all so if in doubt why not ask someone more familiar with the breeds morphology to check the dog out as you said

but both breeds can be agressive mostly with other animals rather than people,need early socialisation,and lot of exercise to ease their restlessness.

so i would not recommend either for a first dog,with inexperienced owners who do not have a yard!

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

Laurence Webb — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:17:16 GMT

Does discussion on an internet forum would count as evidence in court?!!!

I will speak to them again following an informal telephone conversation with a police dog handler today.

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:11:35 GMT

Good idea, but I think VDS will store vascectomy samples, in case the vas re-unites spontaneously-so a case like this might come under the same heading I've got a feeling the police would say 2If you can't prove it's a pit bull type we can't interfere "I may be wrong -would be nice if I was-but I can't see them being over-helpful

Wynne

Re: DNA testing for Pit Bull type dogs

Clive Ansell — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:57:50 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Don't know if police would help-but VDS might

Wynne

[/quote]

My line of thought was that in the event of a disaster, you could prove absolutely that advice had been given to PTS. If a copy of the notes has been filed somewhere, then one could never be accused of fabricating them after the event.