Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 26 Jan 2012 12:09:34 GMT

[quote user="Charlotte Marshall"]

I've seen a few injection site sarcomas, a couple in animals with no record of leukaemia vaccination as far as we could tell and no injections given for 5 years in one case.

On a cpd course I went to last year they quoted some studies from the states where they did the 3 vaccines (flu/ent, leuk, rabies) all in different sites. 52% of sarcomas seen were at the site of rabies vaccine, 29% at the site of felv vaccine and 19% at the site of flu/ent vaccines. They actually reported more difficulties with surgery in sarcomas from limb vacc sites as they often invaded the lateral abdominal muscles as apposed to standard sites. Made me quite happy to continue vaccinating in the scruff.

[/quote]

This fits with Gerry Polton's experience, his view is that the tumour will easily track up the muscle and tendon sheaths and invade the pelvic area which makes treatment more complicated than in the scruff.

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 26 Jan 2012 12:06:21 GMT

[quote user="Gerry Henry"]

Had one in yesterday, and in the centre, an identichip - and it was one of ours (Animalcare).

[/quote]

Must have been the chip then! I use Fevaxyn which is an adjuvanted vaccine and have done for years, before that it was probably Nobivac. I can't remember now what vaccine the one 'VSS' I saw was given as I didn't give it. I've seen one other evil fibrosarcoma in the scruff in a cat with no known vaccine history and one at the base of the spine away from any obvious vaccine sites. The presumed VSS I saw had aluminum deposits in the centre so QED its got to be a VSS! I did go through a phase of being paranoid over VSS's and have removed several lumps from the neck of cats following vaccination when they have been persistent (I always tell clients to observe for any swelling and report if it is persistent i.e. over months) and these have been just inflammatory lesions. The fact that we inject a lot of stuff in the scruff (including chips) and it is a frequently traumatised area means that you can't make an assumption these tumours are always vaccine induced, even if the adjuvant was found in the tumour it may have just coincidentally got incorporated in the same site - just like the chip probably.

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Gerry Henry — Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:24:21 GMT

Had one in yesterday, and in the centre, an identichip - and it was one of ours (Animalcare).

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Charlotte Marshall — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:43:24 GMT

I've seen a few injection site sarcomas, a couple in animals with no record of leukaemia vaccination as far as we could tell and no injections given for 5 years in one case.

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Hanna Bennett — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:15:49 GMT

Rachel Dean did research into the injection site sarcoma incidence and went to hear her speak, at which she said the chances of a cat developing ISS if they were vaccinated was roughly double that if they weren't - sounds impressive but think the actual figures were 1 in 10,000 vs 2 in 10,000. so what are the risks of developing disease if you don't vaccinate - higher or lower than that? We sued to vaccinate in hind legs and didn't have an issue with it, and discussed with owners why we did it, which they took well, but have now gone back to scruff injections. Seen one high grade suspected injection site sarcomas, mid scapula in a cat which had always been vaccinated in the right hind. Had a low grade sarcoma mid thigh in a cat which had been vaccinated eight months previously in the right hind which we operated on and acheived margins on but recurred two years later much higher grade and the cat was pts. no logic i find...

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

James Allsop — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 15:02:06 GMT

I have seen 2 cases of injection site sarcomas in the last 10years, one cat had never been vaccinated (we had records going back to kittenhood and the owner claims never to have been to another practice) the other had only ever had flu/ent vaccines. I used to vaccinate in the hind limp - mid to distal lateral thigh and didnt experience any appreciable increase in reaction from the cat - can be a little tricky in wriggly kittens though. Initially I used to do flu/ent as usual then FeLV in the leg but once I thought about it again I started to give the whole lot into the leg as surely 2 injections (albeit in separate locations) overall increases the pain to the cat and the trauma to the tissues. Where I am currently working the vaccines are given in the scruff so I follow practice protocol as its a non-adjuvanted vaccine anyway.

I have also seen fibrosarcomas in cats in locations other than injection site, always nasty tumours with very high rate of recurrence locally.

When vaccinating in the thigh I used to inform clients that the reason for this was to further reduce any risk of problems that could be associated with vaccines. If asked for more information I used to specifically talk about the low risk of injection site sarcoma (not vaccine associated sarcoma).

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Mike Nikolaou — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 11:22:45 GMT

What a coincidence, I actually had my first case of a breeder telling me their Bengal cat simply cannot have the leukaemia vaccine although I do not remember the reason; mind you they weren't hardcore breeders, and as such they were fairly receptive of what I thought...

And no, I don't vaccinate on the hind leg and I have seen I think one case of inj.site sarcoma (not vaccinated by myself from what I can remember)...

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 10:35:31 GMT

Oh dear I use Purevax so I'd better change my injection technique back to hind leg

Wynne

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 10:30:39 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

I've seen quite a few vaccine-related sarcomas , all moggies though.

I have come across the Bengal thing though. I had a Bengal in for a booster and it was only flu/enteritis. So I said something along the lines of "oh he's an indoor cat is he, is that why he only has flu/ent?" and the owner gave me an incredulous look and said everyone knows you can't given Bengals Felv! Funnily enough I didn't see it in the data sheets.

On the subject of cat breeders - has anyone ever come across a Sphinx? Why anyone would want a totally bald cat is beyond me. But I had one in for his first yearly booster the other day. I also did his kitten vaccinations and he had had diarrhoea which had failed to improve with light diet etc. He had been given one dose of Milbemax previously. With thoughts of Giardia and T foetus I prescribed a 5 day course of Panacur - which resolved the diarrhoea. But apparently the sphinx breeder was VERY ANGRY that we had wormed the cat again!!

[/quote]

Which brand or brands have been used in these cats? I have never seen a sarcoma at the 'typical site' but removed one from lower down the neck at a site of an old cat fight injury.

[/quote]

They have been various ones as I am a locum, but have seen two from one practice that uses Purevax (Merial).

All the cases had had flu/ent/leukaemia - but then most cats do nowadays. I tend to just vaccinate for flu/ent over the age of 10.

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Bob Russell — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 10:16:57 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

I've seen quite a few vaccine-related sarcomas , all moggies though.

[/quote]

Which brand or brands have been used in these cats? I have never seen a sarcoma at the 'typical site' but removed one from lower down the neck at a site of an old cat fight injury.

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 10:07:51 GMT

I used to do hind leg with the old adjuvant vaccines-but not with modern non-adjuvenated ones-no probs so far

Wynne

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 10:01:37 GMT

I can imagine the response from a client when told you were vaccinating their cat in its hind leg because of the risk of cancer and it would be easier to amputate its leg than its neck but I haven't tried it yet! I've only seen one VSS in 35 years and that was vaccinated by someone else. Incidentally, Jerry Polton at NDSR has developed a combined chemotherapy and surgery protocol for treating VSS's with which he claims almost universal success without horrific surgical intervention with cats in remission 7-8 years on.

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 22:39:30 GMT

[quote user="Joyce Whitehead"]which had come with a long list from the breeder[/quote]

I confiscate them. Seriously.

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Joyce Whitehead — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:46:26 GMT

I had a British shorthair pedigree cat in the other day, which had come with a long list from the breeder. I was discussing vaccinations with the owner, and as he is an indoor cat and not going to be put in a cattery, we decided to leave. However, the owner did say in passing - "of course he isn't ever to have the leukaemia vaccine".

To be honest I couldn't be bothered getting into the details as I wasn't giving vaccines anyway, but obviously the resistance to FeLv is spreading into other breeds!

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Kate Richardson — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:32:47 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]Unless they have other in contact cats that do go outdoors.[/quote]

As long as the ones that do go outside are vaccinated, where's the problem?

[/quote]

There isn't one.

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]But people do seem to worry more about the welfare aspects of keeping cats indoors than worry about keeping rabbits in wooden boxes and parrots in a cage. Odd.[/quote]

I have no problem with keeping cats indoors at all, if they are provided with the right environment.

Injection sites- I use lateral abdominal wall skin/flank. Plenty of spare tissue to remove should it be necessary. Have never attempted sc on hind leg in a conscious cat, I imagine it is poorly tolerated, but I have no personal experience of it.

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Louise6732 — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:10:28 GMT

Sphinx and Chinese Crested dogs give me the creeps. I love cats very much but they're not pretty when they are bald. I can hardly bear to inject them, you can see everything! I think fur is a blessing with SC injections as it means you don't have to visualise everything

Sometimes I wonder how I cope with daily vet tasks, I am quite squeamish!

Louise

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Robin Grimmer — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:25:04 GMT

I've seen quite a few vaccine-related sarcomas , all moggies though.

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Louise6732 — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:11:23 GMT

I have one client who requests vaccination in their cats in the hindlimb after one of their cats was diagnosed with a sarcoma which was surgically removed (had FeLV vaccines all it's life, tumour developed at 9yr old). Only the one owner so far.

Louise

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Lorna McHardy — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 16:23:59 GMT

Nope. But then again, I've only ever seen one or two vaccine-related tumours. There seems to be huge geographical variation.

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

James Laidlaw — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:55:53 GMT

How many people in the UK are vaccinating for FeLV in the hind limb? Not just in Bengals obviously...

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Lorna McHardy — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:21:00 GMT

Actually, I just went googling, and am quite heartened by what I found! I searched for 'Bengal cats and vaccinations' and the first site that comes up is a breeder with a FAQ page, that states clearly that Bengals are not naturally more immune than other cats, and that new owners should take their vets' advice. And not far down, there's a discussion forum which does have the "Bengals are particularly susceptible to harm from FeLV vaccines" stuff floating around on it, but by and large, common sense prevails in the contributions.

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Lorna McHardy — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:10:30 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

But people do seem to worry more about the welfare aspects of keeping cats indoors than worry about keeping rabbits in wooden boxes and parrots in a cage. Odd.

[/quote]

Mostly ignorance. It would help if people who want a rabbit for the youngster came to us for advice instead of the bloomin' pet shops - who, by and large, seem to be quite happy to hand out single rabbits with a starter pack of unsuitable commercial food, a miniature hutch, and a big commercial smile.

Sorry. Off topic again

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:52:38 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]Unless they have other in contact cats that do go outdoors.[/quote]

As long as the ones that do go outside are vaccinated, where's the problem?

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]Anyway, can you imagine keeping a bengal indoors only?![/quote]

I know you mean the cat will be a nightmare - and I'd have to agree. But people do seem to worry more about the welfare aspects of keeping cats indoors than worry about keeping rabbits in wooden boxes and parrots in a cage. Odd.

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Gerry Henry — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:47:56 GMT

God you people are so unenlightened; everyone knows that Bengals are genetically immune to FELV, I got it from a very well informed source who in turn got it from ... the breeder.

Re: Feline Leukaemia vaccination in Bengal Cats

Kate Richardson — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 12:26:46 GMT

[quote user="eddapb"]Is there any reason NOT to vaccinate Bengal cats against Feline Leukaemia?[/quote]

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Only if they will be indoor cats!

[/quote]

Unless they have other in contact cats that do go outdoors. Anyway, can you imagine keeping a bengal indoors only?!