Bordetella in Guinea Pigs

Re: Bordetella in Guinea Pigs

Kathryn Burton — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 12:01:38 GMT

Given the suboptimal sounding husbandry, perhaps consider vit C supplementation? As well as the more common manifestations of skin disease, lameness, D+ etc, deficiency can be a contributing factor to pneumonia, especially if the pig is anorexic so not taking in vit C even if the diet is ok. Can try supplementing water if drinking, though need to change water daily is inactivated by metal spout of bottle and by light. Better to give directly in to mouth - Oxbow make vit C tablets for g pigs which apparently taste nice, or could try liquid supplement for children. If likely deficient try 50-100 mg/kg/day for 7 days then reduce to maintenance 10 mg/kg. As it's water soluble any 'overdose' will be excreted by kidneys. Worth a try in any sick piglet!

Re: Bordetella in Guinea Pigs

Emma Middleton — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:31:25 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]Add some meloxicam 0.4mg/kg bid po.[/quote] So would you give a 500g guinea pig a 2kg dog dose twice daily (using the kg syringe provided)? Just checking...

Re: Bordetella in Guinea Pigs

Emma Middleton — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:27:05 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]

Start treating these with doxycycline 2.5mg/kg q 24hrs po

[/quote] Thanks Mark, what form of doxycycline do you give them? We only have Ronaxon here. Is there a more guinea-pig friendly form available in the UK? The guinea pigs did not come in until the following day in the end, and instead of respiratory disease, it was one guinea pig with ringworm (so much for having it under control) and another one with 2 broken legs on the same side (worrying to say the least!). Perhaps an example of the problems we are dealing with here. Apparently they have a new manager starting this week. I hope they improve the situation. They already keep the rabbits and guinea pigs separately, but the same staff are handling them so I have advised assigning separate guinea pig and rabbit staff. In the mean time, I'll await the next new case of respiratory disease and take swabs from them.

Re: Bordetella in Guinea Pigs

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:54:42 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]It's a common approach in herd medicine that the loss of the one life benefits the others greatly[/quote]

I am aware of that. We will do it when necessary, such as with fish, mice colonies etc. I've even done it with a very sick puppy from a puppy farm. I just don't think it is necessary in this case.

Re: Bordetella in Guinea Pigs

Lorna McHardy — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 10:06:41 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]

I wouldnt bother with drinking water baytril to start.

Firstly, isolate contacts. I assume they are already on antibiotics or had some of the baytril so swabbing these is unlikley to help. Start treating these with doxycycline 2.5mg/kg q 24hrs po

Add some meloxicam 0.4mg/kg bid po.

[/quote]

Book duly updated

Re: Bordetella in Guinea Pigs

Mark Rowland — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 08:58:23 GMT

I wouldnt bother with drinking water baytril to start.

Firstly, isolate contacts. I assume they are already on antibiotics or had some of the baytril so swabbing these is unlikley to help. Start treating these with doxycycline 2.5mg/kg q 24hrs po

Add some meloxicam 0.4mg/kg bid po.

watch the rest for early signs of disease. if others start to develop signs then get them tested with swabs for c/s (if new ones get affected that will convince the shop they have a problem).

Advise the rabbits are separated from the G pigs, use separate staff to clean them out (on a rota system possibly) or if not get the staff to sort the piggies first, then disinfect (F10) then do the rabbits.

This sounds like a situation wher these people need a firm protocol put in place with isolation and treatment of affected animals and decent hygine for the rest. i would warn them that it they fail to adopt such a protocol then their reputation and their pocket will be affected (as well as their animals) and they wouldnt want some "well meaning" customer contacting the RSPCA. You can be sure that if the RSPCA got involved they would be at pains to tell them that the animals are under veterinary care to safe themselves some face.

Goodluck

Re: Bordetella in Guinea Pigs

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:16:15 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

I'm sure you could get samples and sensitivities without any sacrifice being made!

[/quote]

Could you get as good, clean samples? The OP has said there is difficulty in sampling. We are dealing with a 'herd' problem. I can't imagine getting a BAL done on a guinea pig.

It's a common approach in herd medicine that the loss of the one life benefits the others greatly. Sorted a nasty IBR outbreak by PM diagnosis and shot a sheep today that was suffering from OPA. Don't dismiss it as a very useful technique. They are both this month!

Re: Bordetella in Guinea Pigs

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 23:58:12 GMT

I'm sure you could get samples and sensitivities without any sacrifice being made!

Re: Bordetella in Guinea Pigs

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 23:40:08 GMT

How about sacrifice one and get some decent samples. That way you know what you are dealing with, sensitivities etc.

Re: Bordetella in Guinea Pigs

Lorna McHardy — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 19:18:01 GMT

[quote user="Emma Middleton"]

Thanks Lorna. The problem is perhaps exacerbated by the fact that this is a large pet store, with lots of employees and I'm not sure that our advice always filters down to the people who care for the animals. After a ringworm problem last year I had several discussions with the manager and various other staff and gave them written instructions on disinfection, treatment protocols etc, and whilst the problem is now under control, it took months before we saw the number of new cases diminish. I have always been very friendly and supportive, but I don't find them very proactive when it comes to disease control. I suspect a visit might be a good idea, to see what they are actually doing.

[/quote]

<shudder> My sympathies. Sounds like you'll be firefighting for a while yet!

[quote user="Emma Middleton"]

I'm still not sure how/if to treat the sick piggies though?

[/quote]

I looked it up, but this information is probably a little out of date - it's a book from 1995.

It suggests either tetracycline 5mg/kg s.c. BID for 4 days and repeat after a break of 4 days;

trimethoprim/sulpha, 30-50mg/kg either SID or BID s.c. or p.os (nothing like being a bit vague);

or chloramphenicol, with even vaguer dose.

Sorry... maybe somebody else will know something more useful.

Re: Bordetella in Guinea Pigs

Emma Middleton — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 13:51:32 GMT

I'm still not sure how/if to treat the sick piggies though?

Re: Bordetella in Guinea Pigs

Lorna McHardy — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:10:49 GMT

As far as I know, Bordetella can indeed cause fatal disease in guinea pigs, and, theoretically at least, be transferred from rabbits, who can carry it but do not usually become as seriously ill. I gather that known instances of cross-infection aren't common, but given the possibility, it seems sensible to advise not keeping them together.

But it sounds as though inadequate husbandry is your main problem. You say you've already advised them regarding hygiene, but they appear to be ignoring you - the words "long term disease problems" in conjunction with "pet shop colony" sound like a bit of a nightmare!

Have you advised them in a chatty, over the phone kind of way, or more formally? I'd suggest that somebody needs to get the owners of this establishment in for a consultation specifically to discuss their general problems (as opposed to checking over an animal), and tell them clearly and precisely what they need to be doing, and equally clearly, that if they do not, the problems will not go away no matter how many drugs you dispense. And give them a sheet repeating the instructions.

If they still ignore you, there's not much else you can do!