Scaley Face

Re: Scaley Face

Marie Kubiak — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 16:01:22 GMT

I'm putting it on the back of the neck after parting the feathers,

Marie

Re: Scaley Face

bob lehner — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:14:57 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]t's easy enough to dilute panomec down to dose accurately - I used to use propylene glycol for a better shelf life of diluted solution but there are reports of toxicity in avian spp. with propylene glycol so I now use water and apply immediately, repeating in 2wk[/quote]

Are you applying it directly onto the affected areas, or just at one spot on the neck - or indeed giving it orally ?

Re: Scaley Face

Mark Rowland — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 09:27:37 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]

I have had several expensive failures with Xeno.

[/quote]

This differs from my experience.

most clients are happy to buy a bottle from me, Those with less funds return for a repeat spray at the practice

Im well aware of the safety margins, I do however like to try to avoid overdosing where possible to protect myself. After all I wouldnt give or advocate a shot of 12.5mls of synulox to a cat with an abscess.

But thats just me.

Re: Scaley Face

Marie Kubiak — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 09:06:39 GMT

It's easy enough to dilute panomec down to dose accurately - I used to use propylene glycol for a better shelf life of diluted solution but there are reports of toxicity in avian spp. with propylene glycol so I now use water and apply immediately, repeating in 2wks. Works fine and means you can apply the correct dose without charging the owner a fortune for xeno.

Re: Scaley Face

Stephen Courtney — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 22:17:05 GMT

I have never killed a budgie with panomec - though had a couple expire in my hands when the owner insisted I picked it up to examine it properly!

I know my dose rate is way more than they need - but it is in my mind irrelevant as it does no harm, and of course given percutaneously the absorption is uncertain.

I usually give an adult guinea pig 0.05ml per os weekly for 6 weeks. and get the owner to give 1000mg vit c (fizzy tablets) per liter of drinking water. and change all bedding and substrate, and treat all in-contacts. Usually works! and never killed one yet.

I have had several expensive failures with Xeno.

Re: Scaley Face

Ian Mostyn — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 19:27:20 GMT

Xeno is outside of the cascade as it is licensed under the Small Animal Exemption Scheme. You can use it or ignore it as you see fit.

ian

Re: Scaley Face

Mark Rowland — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:24:38 GMT

I dont give the GPs that much.

Re: Scaley Face

bob lehner — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:15:43 GMT

Good point - the systemic dose rate is 0.2 mg/kg as you say - just wonder if the whole lot is absorbed and reaches the same tissue level as an injected dose.

Does ivomec, when given topically, get absorbed and work from the inside, or does it just spread across the skin surface and work directly on cutaneous parasites ? I seem to recall hearing about people mixing it in oil and applying it topically for some ectoparasites including scaley beak/leg.

With regard to dose rates for little critters - a lot of people have traditionally give 0.1 ml ivo by injection to GPs for mites - works out about 5x recommended dose rate - but never seems to do them any harm (in my experience - but no doubt someone else will differ).

Re: Scaley Face

Mark Rowland — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 14:57:33 GMT

My problem with dosing this way is the fact that if 1 drop is 0.05mls, that equates to 0.5mg ivomec (10mgs/ml)

Budgie dose 0.2mg/kg

Budgie weight about 50g (probably less)

Dose required 0.01mg

Therefore 1 drop of neat panomec is about 50x the required dose.

I would feel more comfortable defending myself with xeno if there were any issues.

Hope my maths are right.

Re: Scaley Face

Stephen Courtney — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 14:38:35 GMT

when I suspect Knemidocoptes i use the injectable panomec, 1 drop on the back of the neck, every 2 weeks for 3 doses, as suggested above. usually works.

I'm not too keen on Xeno, and I'm not sure how it fits into the Cascade, as it is an unlicensed over-the-counter preparation. Am I supposed to use this in preference to a product licensed for other species? Personally I feel no obligation to use Xeno at all.

Re: Scaley Face

Mike Nikolaou — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 13:19:43 GMT

Hi there Kath,

I have used ivomec/panomec in the past, as you suggested, one drop at the back of the neck every 2 weeks for 3 treatments and it worked a treat. That was before the otc ivermectin appeared, of course!

Re: Scaley Face

Mark Rowland — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 13:10:41 GMT

I generally give 1 spray on the budgie from about 12 inches away and repeat it 10 days later. I haven't had any fall off their perch yet

Re: Scaley Face

KathW — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 13:03:40 GMT

Thanks! Is it ok to spray around the face + eyes though (please excuse my ignorance I 'vce never used it)

Just looked at it online and it implies one pump of the spray for 200g - too much for a budgie or deosn't that matter? Is it advised to spray the whole budgie and just get a mist all over?

Re: Scaley Face

Mark Rowland — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 12:42:03 GMT

Hello,

Xeno spray works well for this condition and should fix it for you,

Goodluck.