Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Chris Geddes — Tue, 08 Jan 2013 19:26:45 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Well, I can.[/quote]

All I can reiterate is that it's not my experience and, somewhat embarrassingly, I remember preparing the owners for removal after steroids and ABs etc. by a colleague, packing the AG, and the owner cancelling and saying it's all fine. Same as cruciate rupture in cats, BTW, got better beore schedules surgery.....

Be careful when you say "anal sacs", as widely reported it's easily mistaken for an unusual sexual practice, so I'm told, and causes a sharp intake of breath from some sophisticated clients in North London....

You enjoy removing them; I enjoy packing them,and anything to do with anal secs. [sorry]

[/quote]

Yes, it is slightly awkward to say, but I am a pedant and so have to say the correct term - like lymph nodes, they are not glands!

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Emily Parkes — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 13:31:50 GMT

Thanks for the update - as often seems to be the way funds are limited with my case so its tricky to know what to go for first. She's already had courses of pred but only high doses seem to keep it controlled and she's so PU on them it doesn't seem feasible to keep her on them. The owner can't afford atopica unfortunately. I've discussed the options with the owner and she's decided she'd rather biopsy but is aware we might not get a definitive answer and may well need to then do 4 weeks worth of antibiotics anyway. Fingers crossed we get as good a result as you have!

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Anthony Todd — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:39:10 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Well, I can.[/quote]

You enjoy removing them; I enjoy packing them,and anything to do with anal secs. [sorry]

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 00:41:01 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]I can't recall removing any AGs once we mastered the art of AG infusion in the conscious dog[/quote]

Well, I can.

But then I'm a surgeon, me. ("Look, I'm just the surgeon! You said remove head and neck! If you meant femoral head and neck you should have said so!")

I have to confess: I actually quite enjoy excising anal sacs.

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Anthony Todd — Thu, 29 Nov 2012 23:05:37 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]anal glands were completely normal,[/quote]

Don't want to flog the horse but I used to see loads of these back in the day and I must say one or two infusions of Panolog [there must be a similar modern preparation?] improved all of them dramatically even after one infusion, and resolved them after three at the most.

I'd even suggest trying it if the AG content was "normal".

Sometimes they recurred, but the owner was alert ,and early infusion prevented much irritation.

Mind you the triamcinolone in the Panolog is a solid dose and may be the reason!

It certainly was/is a quicker, cheaper, and IMHO, a treatment to be tried in the first instance. The described case, particularly in hindsight, with the history and supportive histology , would seem to me, to be a classic for the AG infusion, at least as a trial.

I can't recall removing any AGs once we mastered the art of AG infusion in the conscious dog ,or cat, for that matter.

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Kate Richardson — Thu, 29 Nov 2012 11:56:44 GMT

[quote user="Emily Parkes"]

I know this is going back a while but how did you get on with this? I've got a case in a GSD that looks very similar. Having discussed it with a dermatologist she's recommended biopsy then either 3 weeks worth of cephalexin or tacrolimus ointment depending on the results. Did you get anything meaningful on your biopsy? How did the dog get on?

[/quote]

Hi there. Essentially I put the dog on cephalexin 25mg/kg bid and we used a buster collar to prevent self trauma, and I rechecked the dog every 2 weeks and the lesions improved week by week over an approximately 8 week period until we got to a static state where the lesions were much smaller but not resolving. I then biopsied the lesions. No evidence to suggest anal furunculosis, basically just inflammation and some peri-anal gland hyperplasia which was unusual as no peri anal masses and female neutered. We tested her testosterone levels in case of some unusual hormonal condition or poss hormone secreting neoplasm, but levels were normal. Discussed with pathologists and dermatologists and came to conclusion that the hyperplasia may be secondary to chronic trauma/inflammation similar to lick granulomas where hyperplasia can be seen on histopath. At this point we started prednisolone at 1mg/kg bid (and continued with cephalexin) and also Ermidra Spray (a moisturising/soothing spray- can't remember off hand who makes it but it is also fantastic for clipper rash) Again rechecked every 2 weeks, slowly reduced dose of prednisolone and weaned off, started Cortavance spray when we reached lower doses of prednisolone, were gradually able to completely stop use of the buster collar and eventually managed on Cortavance spray daily. We came to the conclusion that the lesions were all self induced but we still have no idea what caused the underlying irritation, anal glands were completely normal, and there were no faecal problems/diarrhoea. As far as I am aware she is still managed with Cortavance spray on her perianal area. (And before anyone says why didn't you start prednisolone earlier, the owner was reluctant and there was marked week by week improvement initially with cephalexin alone so it was not felt necessary until the lesions became static and the biopsies were taken)

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Anthony Todd — Wed, 28 Nov 2012 23:19:23 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"][quote user="Emily Parkes"]I know this is going back a while but how did you get on with this? [/quote][/quote]

Yes tell us please.

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Thomas Johnson — Wed, 28 Nov 2012 14:50:47 GMT

[quote user="patrick murphy"]

I've currently got a 9 week puppy on the go, who I thought had a rectal proplapse, but it turned out to be a very large dorsal polyp. I shoved it back in and braced it with some inverting sutres. anyone seen one of these? is straining a bit, on i/d and peridale, just handed out a microlax?

[/quote]

I've surgically removed them in older dogs with good success, might be a bit fiddly if the pup's quite small though.

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 28 Nov 2012 14:49:00 GMT

It makes sense it's straining; the polyp is making the rectum feel 'full' and the dog's trying to push it out?

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

patrick murphy — Wed, 28 Nov 2012 12:25:01 GMT

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

mariette asselbergs — Wed, 28 Nov 2012 08:45:11 GMT

Apple bitter to avoid licking? And yes, a smear for malassezia?

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Anthony Todd — Tue, 27 Nov 2012 15:50:48 GMT

[quote user="Emily Parkes"]I know this is going back a while but how did you get on with this? [/quote]

Yes me too. Have to say I used to see a few like this and almost always AG infection giving the chronic inflammation and irritation was the cause and resolved with an infusion of lovely Panolog. [which had a conveniently large amount of triamcinalone...]

[OK, OK, I realise lymphoma etc is possible]

What was the AG content like? If it wasn't like greyish dolce latte I'd be very suspicious.

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Emily Parkes — Tue, 27 Nov 2012 15:37:12 GMT

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Gerry Henry — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:51:40 GMT

'What is fox short for?'

Killern moi chickens, thats wot 'es short for!!!

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Richard Fox — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 12:30:39 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]

[quote user="Richard Fox"]

[quote user="Julian Earl"]

[quote user="Richard Fox"]

..to bx ... to a gross dx ...

[/quote]

What is Fox short for?

[/quote]

Sorry I don't get it Julian - you might have to spell it out - slow Monday brain?[/quote]

Bx, biopsy, dx, diagnosis, Fox... ?

Yeah, I'm just being silly, I know.

[/quote]

dx by fx ;)

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Julian Earl — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 19:01:46 GMT

[quote user="Richard Fox"]

[quote user="Julian Earl"]

[quote user="Richard Fox"]

..to bx ... to a gross dx ...

[/quote]

What is Fox short for?

[/quote]

Sorry I don't get it Julian - you might have to spell it out - slow Monday brain?[/quote]

Bx, biopsy, dx, diagnosis, Fox... ?

Yeah, I'm just being silly, I know.

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

argyro koukouseli — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:15:02 GMT

could be anal adenomata .the upper lesion seems self induced.i would sedate clip hair surgicaly remove the nodules and biopsy if wanted and paid.use collar for 4 weeks and treat with marbofloxacin 5mg/kg/d for 4 weeks.lymphoma and mast cell tumors develop more rapidly than 3-4 weeks.

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Richard Fox — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:29:19 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]

[quote user="Richard Fox"]

12 o'clock looks like erosion/ulceration and slightly protruding? Then you have several small exophytic masses at 6 o'oclock - these maybe related but obviously look different - could you have early hepatoid tumours ventrally? An anitis / proctitis dorsally? Anal furunculosis/ fistulations has to start somewhere and does not always present initially as fistulous tracts? If your going to bx in the future include both lesions and take the border of the errosion/ulcer as well :) As to a gross dx I would be hesitant myself.

[/quote]

What is Fox short for?

Apart from that, milder furunculosis cases, or ones patially healed, can very definitely look like the picture so I would seriously consider steroids and/or cyclosporine as well at the same time as your cephalosporin.

[/quote]

Sorry I don't get it Julian - you might have to spell it out - slow Monday brain?

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Kate Richardson — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:23:52 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"] I would seriously consider steroids and/or cyclosporine as well at the same time as your cephalosporin.[/quote]

I'm loathe to use immunosuppressants at this stage without a firm diagnosis. Finances available for biopsy.

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Kate Richardson — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:22:04 GMT

No palpable masses at all, just feels mildly thickened dorsally and slightly hard on surface. Anal sacs, rectal exam normal, surrounding skin mildly inflamed and suspect secondary to licking. I'll try to remember to take and post another photo in 2 weeks time.

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Julian Earl — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:19:51 GMT

[quote user="Richard Fox"]

[/quote]

What is Fox short for?

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Richard Fox — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:17:56 GMT

Is there a palpable mass under the ulcer/erosion or is it just swollen? If it does feel firm you could try a fairly deepish biopsy just in case there is something under it - the smaller masses could obviously be granulation tissue beds d.t. ulceration but I wouldn't like to guess :)

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Kate Richardson — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:12:16 GMT

Thanks Richard. I have put the dog onto Cephalexin 25mg/kg bid for 2 weeks to try to reduce bacterial infection component prior to biopsying at that point (unless it looks significantly improved) and planned to biopsy all areas as you suggest.

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Richard Fox — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:17:27 GMT

Re: Dog's anus problem- any ideas please!

Richard Carter — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 11:56:02 GMT

Sorry - cannot really make out what is on the photo - have seen malasezia / moist pyoderma in GSD that did quite well with tail and perianal area clipped short and cleaned hibi/malaseb?